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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:51 pm 
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We all know the 2 options of the Look compatible cleats the one with the movements 6 degrees the red one vs the black one which are 0 degrees movement. I have never tried the black ones but now they on my cycling shoes and I'm about to try it first time when I'll get time from work. Before I'm going out anyone can share some experience using them vs the red one? Anything I need to know if I'm going to use them which will make the experience better without learning the hard way..?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Location: UK
I'd be very careful. Cleat alignment is very important because there now isn't any float. BTW the red cleats are 9 deg inclusive (4.5 / side).

Have you got the Delta cleats or the Keo cleats? If it's Keo, there's a grey cleat with 4.5 deg inclusive float. They would be a better choice to try first.


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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Location: Utah
5 8 5 wrote:
Have you got the Delta cleats or the Keo cleats? If it's Keo, there's a grey cleat with 4.5 deg inclusive float. They would be a better choice to try first.


I'd second this. It is important to know there are 3 cleats (Keo).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:38 pm 
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It's keo but I use the Xpedo Thrust Ti axle which is great. It comes with the red and the black I wore off the red already and was thinking to use or try at least the black. I know about the grey but I don't have them.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:39 pm 
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I used black (0 float) cleats for approx 15 years with great result. It takes more "playing around" with getting perfect position, but once it is done they are OK. Having said that I went with float option 6 years ago and I think this is better way since your foot position on the pedal will change when you are off the saddle or riding sitting. I find that this small float provides significant improvement in comfort.
After riding few years using pedals with float (including Time) I decided to try Speedplay last year, but I found too much of the float is not a good thing, so I went back to Look with grey cleats.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:50 pm 
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So here is the verdict I went first time with the black cleats on my Mavic shoes. I did the same course I do sometimes which is 23km more like time trial ride. It is the first time I actually passed the 20mph average speed for the entire length of the course. I approved 1kph average speed from the best one I ever did on this length. I can't tell, be sure or direct it to the black cleats but that is the only thing that was different as setup since I'm doing this course. I also felt comfortable with the fact it fixed and not floating, maybe it is beginners luck, maybe I had more wind today, I don't know but I'll check it few more times and then really decide. So far the knees are fine!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:49 pm 
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I love the black and after a while you will notice even the slightest change--for instance when you replace a worn out pair. They will need to go on exactly the same or you'll feel it until you adjust or get used to slightly different.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:09 pm 
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marko wrote:
I love the black and after a while you will notice even the slightest change--for instance when you replace a worn out pair. They will need to go on exactly the same or you'll feel it until you adjust or get used to slightly different.

I put them all the way up the soil for this ride and I felt good so I don't know if to try other position basically to slide them a bit down the soil so my shoe get little bit forward or to leave it that way. As I say didn't try more then one position and one ride


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:17 am 
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Location: Canada
Everyone is different.

When I started racing, there was no 'float' option. The only choice was quill pedals and cleats affixed with nails. Accordingly, we we're fanatical about cleat set-up. If they weren't perfect, you wouldn't last long. 20+ years later, I would still rather spend the time to get the cleats perfect and go with no float.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:50 am 
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Geoff wrote:
Everyone is different.

When I started racing, there was no 'float' option. The only choice was quill pedals and cleats affixed with nails. Accordingly, we we're fanatical about cleat set-up. If they weren't perfect, you wouldn't last long. 20+ years later, I would still rather spend the time to get the cleats perfect and go with no float.

so u recommend to try different each time until getting the best setup?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I would recommend starting on the trainer, not the road. You can use any of the cleats you want, but adjust the cleats on the trainer so that they are perfect without the use of the float. The trick to healthy knees and longevity in the sport is not to rely on the float alone. Once the cleat is centered, you can switch between red, grey or black and try them out on the road to see which you like best.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Started riding Look Keo Gray and tried out the Red to see what is was like. Didn't like the amount of float the red provided, felt like my leg/knee was sort of "moving around" during the pedal stroke. Went back to Gray and have been using those up until this morning when I switched over to black out of pure curiosity.

Only one short 20min ride around the block a few times but the black felt kind of nice. I liked the feeling when I was standing up to climb and when I sprinted forward. Also, un-clipping felt much easier/I had better control over it. Might be because there wasn't that "wiggle" room there used to be?

Only time and many more rides will tell but so far I think the black *no float* might be kinda nice.

Word of caution regarding set up, TINY adjustments or changes you make even to the angle are very noticeable and impactful!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:52 pm 
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The float/no float thing is something I have been experimenting with over the past year.

I originally went to speedplays because my knees got chronically sore with no-float cleats (Aerolites).
The soreness went away, so that seemed to confirm that float is a good thing for me.

But I also noticed that when I am on prolonged steep, low RPM climbs, or simply very tired, my feet would "wag" around a bit and I felt like I was losing power (or at least I was blaming that and it was pissing me off).
So with the speedplay Zeroes I gradually adjusted down the float in both directions until I felt like I had taken out all float but my foot was still in its most natural position. It seems to work, I feel more powerful and have no knee pain issues. Since my foot is held naturally in its natural position, I don't feel like I have to exert any energy keeping things "straight" when I start to get tired or push large pedal forces.

So maybe if I had just position the no-float cleats perfectly to begin with it would all have been a non issue. The speedplays just made it easy to gradually reduce the play as I zeroed in on the natural foot position. It is also hard to know what "perfect" is unless you ride with the cleats in place. I though I had been being careful to get the old no-float cleat "perfect", but maybe I was wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Rick wrote:
The float/no float thing is something I have been experimenting with over the past year.

I originally went to speedplays because my knees got chronically sore with no-float cleats (Aerolites).
The soreness went away, so that seemed to confirm that float is a good thing for me.

But I also noticed that when I am on prolonged steep, low RPM climbs, or simply very tired, my feet would "wag" around a bit and I felt like I was losing power (or at least I was blaming that and it was pissing me off).
So with the speedplay Zeroes I gradually adjusted down the float in both directions until I felt like I had taken out all float but my foot was still in its most natural position. It seems to work, I feel more powerful and have no knee pain issues. Since my foot is held naturally in its natural position, I don't feel like I have to exert any energy keeping things "straight" when I start to get tired or push large pedal forces.

So maybe if I had just position the no-float cleats perfectly to begin with it would all have been a non issue. The speedplays just made it easy to gradually reduce the play as I zeroed in on the natural foot position. It is also hard to know what "perfect" is unless you ride with the cleats in place. I though I had been being careful to get the old no-float cleat "perfect", but maybe I was wrong.


So do you think the Speedplay's and float in general allow the foot to take a more "natural position" and then once you became used to how that felt you could set up the cleats to lock that in?

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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:23 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:57 pm 
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SolidSnake03 wrote:
So do you think the Speedplay's and float in general allow the foot to take a more "natural position" and then once you became used to how that felt you could set up the cleats to lock that in?


Yes. I think that is the phenomenon. What you think is 'natural' can change when you are actually out putting significant power to the pedals.
So what I did was gradually tighten the float adjustment screws until I could feel that I was pressing up against one side or the other more consistently while riding. I would back off the "touching side" and tighten up the "floating side" just a little bit on a succession of rides, until I just had it so "centered" that they were both clamped tight and there was no float.

maybe there people who are more sensitive or perceptive than I, who can set it correctly much faster. but this works for me.
Since I am already comfortable with the full-float of speedplays, the little extra float that I have during the tightening/centering process doesn't bother me, so I can still ride without thinking much about it. Just take a little screwdriver with you on a day when you are not worried about stopping once in a while. I don't even have to take off my shoes, just make the adjustments about a half turn at a time.


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