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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 104
Great write up! One final question. I see you tested a Dura-Ace FD as well. If you have the <2012 SRAM Red group and just want to upgrade the front derailleur, which gives the best upgrade, dura-ace or new red?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:02 pm 
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blantonator wrote:
Great write up! One final question. I see you tested a Dura-Ace FD as well. If you have the <2012 SRAM Red group and just want to upgrade the front derailleur, which gives the best upgrade, dura-ace or new red?

Thanks!


New Red, I think. But only if you're a good mechanic, the Yaw FD is far more tricky to set up. Once you get it right, though, it works better than the 7900 FD with old SRAM rings (which is only a bit better than old Red FD with Red rings). Plus I imagine there will be aftermarket rings designed around the Yaw FD available later this year, so you can get the full system performance.

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Contact always welcome - http://velonews.competitor.com/author/cfretz / cfretz at competitorgroup dot com.
Twitter: @CaleyFretz


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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:02 pm 
  • 22.90 € (including 19% VAT)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm
Posts: 66
@VNTech

Thank you both personally and thank you Velonews for the research work and great article.

I am sure that the various combinations will be part of the SRAM-users community's arsenal of work-around solutions for the much loved double-tap SRAM Red groupo.

I think and hope that your score of 5/10 for the pre-2012 SRAM Red system is more of a reflection of the massive improvement of the new 2012 SRAM Red system, priced at $2500 if you can find one.

I am also sure that if a new 2012 SRAM Red Yaw FD will improve existing pre-2012 SRAM Red systems from 5/10 to 8/10 or even 9/10, the minimal outlay of a $150 for a new 2012 Sram Red Yaw FD will be one of the best buys of all time.

However, I would like to ask your opinion for those of us who are looking to put together a complete new build and who are non-sponsored amateurs. One of the key considerations is for the most optimal price to performance groupset.

I believe that the pre-2012 SRAM Red groupo is still a great groupo - probably now a greater value due to the current firesale allowing for the pre-2012 SRAM Red groupset to be purchased for less than $1000! One more work around solution is based on using the SRAM Red steel cage FD with the Cannondale Hollowgram SI SL crankset. Or, a new 2012 SRAM Red Yaw steel cafe FD can be used. This option would probably bumb up the system price to $1500 for probably a 9/10 system.

Btw, based on the new 2012 SRAM Red system relative score of 10/10, I wonder if the Shimano Dura Ace DI2 would score a 11/10? But, that is at a price of $4000.

So, if my assumptions are correct,
1) a 11/10 Shimano Dura Ace DI2 system costs about $4000
2) a 10/10 new 2012 SRAM Red system costs $2500
3) a 9/10 SRAM Red hybrid system with the Red Steel FD and Hollowgram crankset costs $1500

Well, I still have a mortgage, car payments, and my sons 403b college fund...

With Regards,

Mark

_________________
2012 Lynskey R330 with SRAM Red Quarq
2013 Parlee Z1 with DA 9070
2013 Lynskey Helix OS II with SRAM Red


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:08 pm
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Mark,
Your assumptions are correct. On the scale I used, Di2 is probably 12/10, EPS is 11/10, 7900 is 10/10, best New Red mix (new FD and new cranks, old shifter) is 9/10. As soon as you un-pair the FD and new crankset, performance suffers a bit, but is still better than the old Red front shifting.

The sweet spot will be when you can get aftermarket rings designed around the Yaw FD. Then just picking up the new FD and some Ya-ready aftermarket rings will give all the performance advantage at minimal cost.

And thanks for the kinds words, much appreciated.

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Contact always welcome - http://velonews.competitor.com/author/cfretz / cfretz at competitorgroup dot com.
Twitter: @CaleyFretz


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:41 am
Posts: 201
Location: Bucks County PA USA
Caley - any thoughts On how the Yaw will work with cross rings - I'm running old (2011) Red shifters, 38-48 S900 crank and 2011 Force FD on current cross rig. Not happy at all with the front shifting no matter how much I fiddle. Will the new Red FD work on this setup to give the '9/10' upgrade ? Thanks for your opinion and a great article.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm
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@VNtech

Thanks so much for the great write up! I have a question that I don't think has been answered yet - The old shifters have a trim function. When you pair old shifters with the new FD, what happens when you click to trim? Does it trim the new FD or does it simply do nothing?

thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:58 pm 
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BayAreaWingsFan wrote:
@VNtech

Thanks so much for the great write up! I have a question that I don't think has been answered yet - The old shifters have a trim function. When you pair old shifters with the new FD, what happens when you click to trim? Does it trim the new FD or does it simply do nothing?

thanks in advance


It trims. That's why the new FD + Old crankset works better with the old shifters than the new ones, because you can trim-out the chain rub.

Idamelio — Sorry, haven't tested it. The new FD is just simply better though, so I imagine it would help.

_________________
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Contact always welcome - http://velonews.competitor.com/author/cfretz / cfretz at competitorgroup dot com.
Twitter: @CaleyFretz


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm
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VNTech wrote:
BayAreaWingsFan wrote:
@VNtech

Thanks so much for the great write up! I have a question that I don't think has been answered yet - The old shifters have a trim function. When you pair old shifters with the new FD, what happens when you click to trim? Does it trim the new FD or does it simply do nothing?

thanks in advance


It trims. That's why the new FD + Old crankset works better with the old shifters than the new ones, because you can trim-out the chain rub.

Idamelio — Sorry, haven't tested it. The new FD is just simply better though, so I imagine it would help.

Awesome, thank you for the follow up


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
VNTech wrote:
(some general awesomeness)


Just wanted to give a major (and I mean, MAJOR) shout out to Caley for putting together the VeloNews compatibility report on the various bits of the new 2012 SRAM Red. It was super helpful and explained everything perfectly: what works with what, where benefits can be gained, where benefits are lost, etc:.

As someone primarily concerned about weight & costs, it was extraordinarily revealing to learn that I can hold onto previously tuned components and still benefit from new parts of Red.

Thanks Caley.

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Exp001 || TeamLACBC


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:08 pm
Posts: 194
Much appreciated! Glad to help.

_________________
VeloNews Magazine/VeloNews.com tech
Contact always welcome - http://velonews.competitor.com/author/cfretz / cfretz at competitorgroup dot com.
Twitter: @CaleyFretz


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm
Posts: 66
@VNTech and @Caley

Once again, thank you for a great write up.

Because of your article, I have decided to subscribe to Velo Magazine.

With Regards,

Mark

_________________
2012 Lynskey R330 with SRAM Red Quarq
2013 Parlee Z1 with DA 9070
2013 Lynskey Helix OS II with SRAM Red


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am
Posts: 629
liquigas is using new sram shifter/rear derailleur with old chainrings/front steel derailleur.
ps. sram hurry up and release chainrings compatible with 5-arm spider. a little embarrasing.

new advert - nibali wins tirreno with 80% new red 20% old :oops:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theroaddiaries/6810088306/sizes/o/in/photostream/

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2014 Trek 7.9 PO 9070 di2


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:37 pm
Posts: 87
My curiosity is piqued, as I've found nothing that shifts better more consistently than a previous gen 10sp Shimano FD with Red shifters. Steel-cage Red? Meh. 7900? Too finicky. Force? Meh. 7800 FD = butter.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 271
Great writeup. Much appreciated.

So I can get an idea of the improvement you are seeing relative to my personal experience, how would you rate the old red with a force or steel cage red front derailleur?

Thanks - I really do appreciate the subjective scale, and amount of work you put into the article, and your continued replies to this thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm
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VNTech wrote:
Much appreciated! Glad to help.

I think you've made many of us stoked on VeloNews. Someone should give you a raise


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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:01 pm 
  • 22.90 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 77 components


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