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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:52 pm 
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This does truly look like it is going to be an amazing build.

I must say I really enjoy the style of this thread, the way in which you have documented the production of your frame is great. The added snippets of the background of the country and the way in which you give a social background to the build is compelling. Cant wait for the next instalment of this build


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:56 am 
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On the picture: IMG_1208.JPG bottom right it seems like there is tubes with a valve that are inserted in the plastic tubes that are inside the carbon tubes. Do you by chance know how much air pressure is being used inside the tubes when they are in the molds?


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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:56 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:28 am 
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Amazing job, elviento!
Looking forward to the final result!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Great thread. Just curious, once the frame is complete will you be taking the mould with you?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Fitty4 -- That IS an excellent question. They had mentioned a number at some point but for the life of me... (vaguely remember 60psi or something? Or they could be using a metric system...)

What I DO know is that you want the pressure nice and high, but not too high as it could squeeze out too much resin that is beneficial to the bonding of the carbon sheets, plus the plastic bags could burst, and that's not cool at all.

Ramjm -- there are so many things I could do with it, some of which have been mentioned earlier, but what I will immediately do with this mould is make at least 4-5 more frames for myself --- one frame will be used for testing. I might actually send it to one of the top labs and let the Germans beat the sh*t out of it. The factory has its own testing facilities too, which I can use if I end up cheaping out. We shall see. 2-3 others will be replacing the various frames I have right now. 2 Colnago frames and a Pinarello frame will probably end up on the wall. Will also experiment with the external finish, such as 12K, UD, 3K, etc., maybe get one of each when I am at it. Some experimental cable routing will be in order for a Di2/EPS version I believe. One of these will be made by me, with one of their workers supervising the layup process. Nothing like what Berk is doing but hopefully still a decent job, as I am pretty good with handiwork generally. Most important of all, we will be experimenting with different modules carbon fiber to experiment with weight and stiffness combinations. This time around I have not been able to source any nano carbon (factory can get some that they are forbidden by contract to let me use) and balsalt fibers, so I could lay my hands on some of those.

If I end up making 5-6 of these, the cost per frame is actually similar to getting 5 higher end stock carbon frames, which I normally do over any 2-3 year period anyway.

fitty4 wrote:
On the picture: IMG_1208.JPG bottom right it seems like there is tubes with a valve that are inserted in the plastic tubes that are inside the carbon tubes. Do you by chance know how much air pressure is being used inside the tubes when they are in the molds?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:57 pm 
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OK, so much for the molds and back to the carbon layup. As I was told the first frame doens't always have a high success rate, at my request we are aiming at sturdiness over anything else for the very first Falco frame.

Also for rugged looks, we are adopting 12K finish rather than UD, which will add a bit of weight but I am not concerned at this point at all. Fibers used are a mix of regular (commonly known as T700) and higher modules fibers. Also will leave some room for improvement when we do the ww version. :D

I noticed the 12K fibers are not fully flat on the UD and they assured me as 12K is purely cosmetic, this is totally fine and the air pressure will fix it. Again I don't want to belabor the point, but it was comforting to see the 2 other workers putting the tubes into the clam shells with total focus.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Now the waffle is ready for baking!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:21 pm 
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While my Falcon is being cooked at 150-ish degrees, I diverted my attention to the neighboring stand in an effort to ease the anxiety.

What caught my eye was a freshly baked TT front triangle again in 12K glory.

Looked delicious, which made me feel a bit more optimistic about mine. That being said, I still couldn't help noticing that the abrupt ridges at the back of the Kamm tail airfoil may be subject to small uneven-ness which I am sure will be filled up as part of the routine. Won't really matter to TT frames but I certainly don't want my road frame to have a bunch of those fillers. This is why I have refrained from using overly angular shapes in my design even though it's all the rage these days.

Clock ticks on...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:51 pm 
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The build pictures look very nice. This might be a silly question. But how much is this costing you?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:22 am 
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Very interesting thread! How could i have missed this one so far? Rather intrigued to hear the answer to that last question...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:46 am 
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There are many ways to calculate this. Making the moulds costs around 20K-25K USD (you could get cheaper but quality is different). A lot of the little bits and pieces like the ISP topper have to be custom ordered.

Much greater amount of labor is involved in this than I had imagined, and most of it can't really be paid off with money. I try not to calculate that for fear of totally blowing the original budget analysis.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:51 am 
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Sorry for the lack of updates for a few weeks... been swamped.

So here it goes:

A worker scrapes away the excess resin, and the bladder ends are sawed off.

Notice the cutaway design of the seat tube. It's also wider at the bottom and narrower at the top to provide a balance of weight, stiffness and aerodynamics.

Incidentally the excess resin reminds me of something crispy and tasty.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:07 am 
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Some more details of the seatpost topper. I am loving it.

Notice the hole in the wedge. I have a titanium piece going into it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:15 am 
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Much to my dismay, the bottom bracket turned out to be BSA rather thant he PF30 I had in mind. After checking the email chains, I realized it was my own oversight when I sent over the specs...

That said, I already have BSA cups lying around so for the first prototype, it will have to do for now.

Fortunately, the fork turned out reasonably light, at 364g uncut. I can live with that. Afterall, this is the heavy version of the fork, I was told, w/ 12K and all...


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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:15 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:23 am 
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The frame weight, with FD and RD hangers, came in at 910.8g with uncut ISP.

If we go by Pinarello's measurement, cut off the ISP and take off the metal pieces here and there, I think we are talking 700g already. LOL. :wink:


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