LSD/'base miles' training - indoors replication & benefit

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

Related, from running: Shin-splints can also result from muscle imbalance and an improper form.
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chipomarc
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by chipomarc

Base miles, fellows.

by Weenie


indigo
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by indigo

Hi,

I hear you should make your "slow rides slow, and your hard rides very hard".

1) Specifically what is the adaptation that long, slow rides cause ?

2) I believe that I make my turbo sessions hard enough. Though my "training" is only composed of turbos. What will missing the slow, long "weekend" style rides result in ?

With 3 young kids, I often find I get no weekend time on the bike.

Thanks.

ultyguy
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by ultyguy

Ha, similar boat to some respect, but I'm only on 1 at the moment rather than 3!

What are your goals for the season? The local sportives (short/mid/long distance)? More racing events? What I tend to try and do is make sure to get a week in the sun at some point in March or April in order to just get in some miles and kick start some consistency. You might still be able to get some cheap flights to Mallorca and Easyjet are flying Tenerife now too.

I also start now w/ a steady diet of HI rollers in order to get that neuromuscular firing back a bit, my legs always feels slow from ski season. I have a mate who's a trainer in London who basically just said the next best thing for me personally is just to fill in LT for distance, so....after a week in the sun, it's a lot of LT work once the clocks change which is a steady diet of Saleve at least 2x week (which is still only 1.5hrs riding really). Once the event calendar starts, I use gradually increasing in difficulty sportives/races to really build out the rest.

La Bourguignonne shorter version
Seeland Classic 99km version (quite fast and racy)
Cycletour Leman (as hard or easy as you want it to be)
Faucigny Gliere (I usually do long, but you could do short and be back for lunch also pretty racy)

Then from there it's the bigger ones and although I'll usually have one complete bonk destruction (Morzine always seems to get me) I usually have enough in the legs then to just do topping up throughout the rest of the summer

edit- the only L2 'work' I'll do is on recovery rides. At the end of the day, almost everything I ride is mountains which means 30-60 min climbing LT climbing followed by descending and a rest.

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

indigo wrote:1) Specifically what is the adaptation that long, slow rides cause ?


Increased, mitochondiral enzyme signalling, neo-vascularisation, increased plasma volume etcetc, pretty much all the things you get from Z4 and above rides but to a lesser extent for the same period... but of course you can do a bucket load more Z2 than Z4. Then there are "grey" areas like efficiency and economy. And depending on what you are training for having basic "arse in saddle time" is a good if you are planning to do longer races etc.

2) I believe that I make my turbo sessions hard enough. Though my "training" is only composed of turbos. What will missing the slow, long "weekend" style rides result in ?


If carefully structured not a huge amount, but there are limits to what can be yielded by turbo session alone, but alls you can do is alls you can do. Even doing turbo sessions a trend to only do "hard" stuff will limit gains if the hard stuff is sufficiently hard and the easy stuff not easy enough. And over doing the "sweat spot" stuff can often result in a plateau (for some at least).

With 3 young kids, I often find I get no weekend time on the bike.


I have a 2-up trailer and a baby seat for when junior no. 3 is big enough. No excuses ;) Kids out of the house, training time and a happy wife. Win all round. :D
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
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Devon
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by Devon

Not all about being slow, it's about heart rate zones and the intensity required should reflect the goal. I can sit at 32-34kph in Z2 fior an hour happilly. Depends completely on your body, your fitness, and your riding style.
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indigo
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by indigo

Thanks for the responses guys.

Ultyguy, yeh the goals are to do some sportives like the Cyclotour Leman and hopefully later some tougher events later like the Tour de l'Ain. Thanks for the suggestions for the other rides, had never even heard of La Bourguignonne :oops:

A few years ago I did something similar to yourself, but with La Faucille in the mornings as opposed to Saleve. I also got my weight down to about 5kg less than what it currently is. Those things become harder to do with more kids though. Not least just from tiredness.

Tapeworm, thanks for the explanation. Like you say, all you can do is all you can do - my sessions are 3X week and it is usually 1X20 min sustained effort, plus something like 2X[4X1] on/off. These are lunchtime gymbike sessions.

Anything worth trying to change / add in the limited time ?

As for this ..

I have a 2-up trailer and a baby seat for when junior no. 3 is big enough. No excuses ;) Kids out of the house, training time and a happy wife. Win all round. :D


Easy to say when down under ;-)

ultyguy
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by ultyguy

Yeah, l'ain is a great goal, really enjoyed it the last 3 years. Also it's late in the season so you have time to build up for it.

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

Down under you say. Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of awesome:-
Image

:lol:

To your actual question. I would keep the session more "clean", in that keeping the session focused for the task at hand. So if doing a Vo2 max session then do the warm up, then hit the 4x4mins or 3x8mins and that's it. I have no evidence for this basis but it seems sensible to maximise the enzyme signalling, induce the adaptations we want etc. So if you're limited to three sessions only per week at hour or less then I have prescribed or used the following myself (in no particular order or significance).

60mins Z2.

5 mins warm up, 40mins Z3/4, 5min cool down.

10 mins warm up, 20mins FTP, 5min recovery, repeat, 5 mins cool down.

10mins warm up, 3 x [8min @ Z5, 7 mins recovery], 5min cool down.

10mins warm up, 4 x [4mins @ Z5, 1min:30sec recovery], 10min cool down.

10mins warm up, 3 x [3mins @Z5 (high end), 3mins recovery], 10mins cool down.

10mins warm up, 4 x [30sec Z6/30sec easy Z1], 4 mins spin, repeat, 10mins cool down.

10mins warm up, 8 x [20sec Z6/7, 10sec z1], 4 mins spin, repeat, 10mins cool down.

5 mins warm up, 30x[30sec z5/30sec easy], 10mins cool down.

5 mins warm up, 8 x [15sec sprint, 2min 45sec spin], 5 mins spin, repeat, 10mins cool down.

So with the above in mind/for inspiration I would try to hit one intense sessions, sprints for example, one Vo2max session one threshold session and the following week make it one easy ride, one threshold, one vo2max.

If there is any additional easy endurance work - running, skiing, rowing, whatever, will only help in these circumstances.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

indigo
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by indigo

:beerchug: Thanks muchly TW.

KWalker
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by KWalker

Depends on your overall training volume. If I only have 1 day a week to ride long, I might ride that ride at .7-.75 whereas if its a really voluminous week I might turn it down to .65-.7. The kj difference and perceived stress isn't a ton different, but if I have 10-12hrs of riding at L2 a week (out of ~14hrs) it might amount to 1,500 to 1,800kj/week. Personally, I see almost no real difference in terms of affect, but its more about leaving some in the tank for the harder work and staying fueled when volume goes up.

I've also found that most riders really overestimate their pace in the first 2 hours and have seen lots of clients go out and hit a good .75 pace for 3hrs then just tank in hours 4 and 5. I don't find this an effective way to build endurance capacity. For me personally this is never an issue and I spend the winter slowly build up the pace on my L2 rides until most of them are right around .75. I have no idea as to why this works better for me, however, this is a steady .75 pace not .65 with all the hills in the big ring to bring the NP up, which is how I see most people drain their tanks too fast.
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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

indigo wrote:
I have a 2-up trailer and a baby seat for when junior no. 3 is big enough. No excuses ;) Kids out of the house, training time and a happy wife. Win all round. :D


Easy to say when down under ;-)

I have a mate who lives in Bern. Takes his daughter everywhere in the trailer. Which when you consider there is no car in his household, means he stays in terrific shape.

He's also an ex-pat Aussie, so did not grow up in the snow. If there's a will, there's a way.

HillRPete
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by HillRPete

Tinea Pedis wrote:
I have a 2-up trailer and a baby seat for when junior no. 3 is big enough. No excuses ;) Kids out of the house, training time and a happy wife. Win all round. :D

Takes his daughter everywhere in the trailer.[...]If there's a will, there's a way.

Kudos to everyone who can manage that. It doesn't work with every child though, they are not all the same.

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Rick
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by Rick

chase196126 wrote:I recommend trying to do 3 hours on the trainer on those days. I know it is longer than you want to ride inside, but I can assure you that after a few times doing 3 hours inside it will not feel as long and torturous.

After a couple times of 3 hrs on the trainer, it definitely seems different. It seems more like 9 hours. :lol:

nathanong87
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by nathanong87

i recommend this for your work place. 40 trainer hours a week.

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