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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:44 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
I have heard of people who have had rims fail, sent them in for warranty and had the rim maker demand to see the brake pads they were using.

If you own carbon wheels you should read your rim maker's warranty. They usually say that you must use the pads they require, and that if you do use the pads on aluminium rims (i.e. you get a wheel in a race) you must remove the pads and pick the shards out.

You could use the same pads for both but you'd need to remove them so you can see that you have removed all the shards. Running sandpaper or emery cloth over the pads won't get the shards out in my experience. They go too deep. You need to use a tool to pick them out. If you're going to remove the pads anyhow to clean them you might as well put rim-specific pads on and get better braking.

I have heard of one carbon rim maker who claims that you can use your regular pads, shards and all, on their rims. I wouldn't do it myself but if you have those rims, try it and report back.

I don't understand what the problem is with swapping pads. It's really easy. Hardly any more difficult than changing wheels, especially if you do it with the wheels off. I've done it in the parking lot before a race when I made a last minute decision to use low profile wheels.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:38 am 
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Hi,

Valbrona wrote:
Mathieu wrote:
Does someone know if there are braking pads that can be used for full carbon rims and alu rims? So I shouldn't replace them everytime I change wheelset.


Yup. These: http://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?p ... 7&subcat=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Those pads are identical to Swisstop Yellow which are meant to be used in combination with carbon rms. It's not because they'll actually work on alloy rims as well that you can alternate between ally/carbon rims using the same pads.

The aggravating thing about this that you now see rebranding traders marketing pads as if you actually could...

Of course they won't be buying you new carbon rims, will they? They never said you could use the same pair of pads either, it just sounds like that.........

Ciao, ;)

EDIT: I just noticed the add by TRP literally saying that you actually can use the same set of pads. Odd as Swissstop does not mention this...
Either way, you shouldn't.

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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:38 am 
  • 10.90 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 104 components by Swissstop


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:04 am 
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Location: Canada
First I will say that I do change pads on my "nice" bike since I run Lightweight wheels and I don't want to take a chance on damaging them.

Having said that few years back I run Corima Aero and Ambrosio Alu rims on my bad weather / winter bike. I used Corima cork pads only (no changes) for both sets of wheels and I have to say that when I inspected Corima's there was no sign of any damage to the rim. I would go as far as saying they looked like new. I would estimate that I used these wheels 50% of time each over the period of 4 years.

Also performance of the cork on the alu rim was not that bad. I had to squeeze my break a bit harder. :wink:

So sometimes I wonder if the "no same pads on alu/carbon rims" statement is not an urban legend or marketing tactic to sale more break pads.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:55 am 
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I have experience using Campagnolo pads. There are 2 types for Carbon rims, one is cork, the other is grey rubber (labelled Carbon T3). I got 3 kg of used Campagnolo pads from an Italian pro team mechanic, 50% was lightly used, I kept these. 90% was for carbon rims, both cork and rubber version. Some of these had aluminum particles in it, which means that even pro mechanics use carbon type pads for aluminum training wheels, maybe that's all they had on hand and they probably discarded the "soiled" ones when switching back to carbon rims. I tried to run the carbon pads on aluminum rims - the grey rubber type was actually quite good, almost as good as the regular Campagnolo Record pads I used before. The cork ones were not so great, needed more force for equal braking power and the modulation was erratic.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:16 am 
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Somewhat relatedly, I'm wondering if the same applies when swapping between ceramic coated rims (Open Pro Ceramic) and carbon. Say using with yellow Swissstops or blue Reynolds.

Anyway this is just to gather opinions, the Open Pros will stay on my rain bike in all most likely.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:30 am 
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eric wrote:
I have heard of people who have had rims fail, sent them in for warranty and had the rim maker demand to see the brake pads they were using.

If you own carbon wheels you should read your rim maker's warranty. They usually say that you must use the pads they require, and that if you do use the pads on aluminium rims (i.e. you get a wheel in a race) you must remove the pads and pick the shards out.


They do, but I still haven't seen the evidence.

I find changing pads a ballache so I got some lower profile carbon clinchers to avoid it! Not a cheap solution...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:56 pm 
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+1. The mythic 'shards' aside, carbon-specific pads don't work nearly as well as the factory pads do on alloy rims.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Geoff wrote:
+1. The mythic 'shards'


I find them in my DA pads every time I take them off.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Robroyski wrote:
First I will say that I do change pads on my "nice" bike since I run Lightweight wheels and I don't want to take a chance on damaging them.

Having said that few years back I run Corima Aero and Ambrosio Alu rims on my bad weather / winter bike. I used Corima cork pads only (no changes) for both sets of wheels and I have to say that when I inspected Corima's there was no sign of any damage to the rim. I would go as far as saying they looked like new. I would estimate that I used these wheels 50% of time each over the period of 4 years.

Also performance of the cork on the alu rim was not that bad. I had to squeeze my break a bit harder. :wink:

So sometimes I wonder if the "no same pads on alu/carbon rims" statement is not an urban legend or marketing tactic to sale more break pads.


As your using a full cork pad it's unlikely that there is any alloy in the pads that's all....
.cork is much softer than the normal pads used for alloy rims and will wear very fast and not work any where near as well... But it pretty much can't damage an alloy rim or even cause it wear.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:43 am 
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You can use the same pads for both carbon and alloy wheels, but you won't want to because the performance will suffer on one or the other and you will sacrifice some safety. You should use cork or Swissstop yellow pads for carbon and regular pads for alloy. It only takes two minutes to swap them out so no biggie.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:07 am 
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Hi,

Quote:
As your using a full cork pad it's unlikely that there is any alloy in the pads that's all....


You mean the cork is going to give in before the aluminium shard gets stuck in it? Hmmm... I won't bet on it.

Either way, this guy sold his carbon wheels after he thougt it was O.K. NOT to swap his pads out:

Ciao, ;)


Attachments:
File comment: Used to be a set of expensive CF wheels...
426833RIMG0245.jpg
426833RIMG0245.jpg [ 130.69 KiB | Viewed 1002 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:48 am 
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In the used brake pad box of the ProTour team I found many (Campy) cork pads with some aluminum alloy particles. It may also depend on the alloy type: softer rim material of cheap training wheelsets (e.g. Campy Khasmin, which I have two used pairs from the same team) will more likely to "erode" than a hard Mavic Maxtal alloy.

I have also seem carbon rims like in the pic above (not at the pro team): yes, you must always use carbon-specific pad on a carbon braking surface.


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