This as gone over the edge, cmon Fergie, cmon Rick. Dont fall in the insult stuff.

_________________
2013 rocky mountain vertex 29er
­Twitter
www.cyclingtrainingnuts.blogspot.ca

Do you seriously not understand how any of the above studies or those presented earlier relate directly to the discussion at hand? On what grounds do you think it is not relevant? You seem willing to dismiss all of this as not being relevant when it's the complete opposite. How can you not see that? For someone who states that "... I don't have an assertion. *I* am NOT claiming that asymmetry will do anything when corrected. *I* am not the one claiming to know anything about this...." you seem to dismiss the information at hand. Hell, one of the studies I linked could be used to argue the benefits of bringing asymmetry to as narrow a margin as possible, but you dismissed them all. Why is that?

It's not about me proving you wrong Rick, it's about knowledge.

Given you're still responding I'll assume you still have interest in the subject.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

Oh man! The last few pages have been painful to read.

I can admit that i don't understand how i could get from measuring and verifying the imbalance to improved balance and improved performance. I would love to try these pedals, but the price is quite a barrier especially when durability and reliability are bit of a question mark. I know few more, and proven, ways to improve my cycling with this sort of money.

_________________
http://demarere.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great question ^^^This was the question posted by the OP

I think these pedals will provide lots of people with information that they aren't qualified to deal with.

When considering all the possibilities that I know of which could lead to pedaling asymmetries and then considering the possibilities that I don't know of leads me to believe these things are gonna be a source of great misinterpretation.

Still reading; still interested; but i will no longer make any of my own comments or respond to comments.

Another study of the effect of correcting asymmetry (due to foot alignment):

What Does the Research Say?
Many of the claims related to the benefits of both Cleat Wedges and ITS Wedges are anecdotal. Although little published research
exists on their application and/or performance benefits; they remain widely used and appear to provide instant benefits at
minimal expense. In a robust repeatedmeasures design study, Dinsdale (author) and Williams (2010) examined the effect of ITS
Wedges on cycling performance in riders with varying levels of forefoot varus / forefoot supinatus. Unlike previous studies, this
study reported forefoot varus measurements for each rider, and the corresponding number of ITS Wedges used in testing. Unique to
this study, the results demonstrated a strong correlation between power output and cyclists with varying amounts of forefoot varus /
forefoot supinatus. Consequently, those with the highest levels of forefoot varus / forefoot supinatus demonstrated increased anaerobic
mean power outputs of approximately 10%.

Full paper here:
http://www.njdsportsinjuries.co.uk/inde ... 532282.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dr. Ed Burke (previously mentioned) is the author of High-tech Cycling. I can't cut & paste from google books, but you can see his anaylsis of pedaling dynamics and comments on asymmetry here : http://books.google.com/books?id=msdT4i ... er&f=false

Neither article is an actual research paper.

Those who clearly don't understand the actual research shouldn't post about what what the research says.

_________________
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Well the first is a nicely constructed ad. It also does not address whether there was a power imbalance between the legs and how much this was corrected (not that it matters) . However, as I have mentioned before, a good fitter should pick up on gross biomechanics imbalances and this could be a good argument for the use of wedges. A pedal based power systems is not relevant in the slightest.

I stopped reading the extract of the book when they mentioned Powercranks. Once again this is about pedal force application rather than asymmetry per se. And power cranks been done to death and the consensus and research all say its hokum. Same with Rotor rings. There is no free lunch.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

Just to clarify: "What Does the Research say" is actually part of the quote from the paper. It is not my comment.

Kamen, Foundations of Exercise Science, 2001, page 187:
"In this study, the degree of asymmetry was affected by pedaling rate and power output. On discovering that force production was markedly asymmetric one elite cyclist in this study modified his technique and training methods and eventually became a world champion."
Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=CRVAr- ... &q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Dinsdale:
"Conclusion
In order to treat something, we must first be able to recognise and diagnose it. This article
clearly highlights the need for appropriate screening prior to Bikefit. As demonstrated, efficient,
injury free cycling is highly reliant on pedalling symmetry."
Link: http://www.njdsportsinjuries.co.uk/Befo ... rt%201.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



International Journal of Sports Science and Engineering
Vol. 02 (2008) No. 01, pp. 36-46
Comparison of Biomechanical Criteria in Cycling Maximal Effort Test
William Bertucci 1, Redha Taiar, Yuli Toshev, and Thierry Letellier
1 Laboratoire d’Analyse des Contraintes Mécaniques (LACM, EA 3304), UFR STAPS, Université de Reims-Champagne- Ardenne, Bat. 6 Moulin de la Housse 51687 Reims cedex 2, France
2 Institute of Mechanics and Biomechanics, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, Bulgaria
(Received January 14 2008, accepted February 20 2006)

The RMPD differences between RG and EG could be explained either by the possibility that RG cannot generate high PO values over an extended period during a sprint test, or that the EG have developed (with intensive training) a specific pedalling technique. A high RMPD90 value indicates that the athlete is characterized by a continuous region of maximal forces, the accelerations being well represented at the beginning and end of the pedal downstroke. In other words, a cyclist who has a high RMPD applies a significant force on the pedal for a longer time and reaches the maximal CT level faster. These preliminary results were obtained from the SRM device and suffice to measure the downstroke propulsive torque of one leg and the upstroke propulsive torque of the other leg. We encourage further studies to confirm the difference between RG and EG using two instrumented pedals capable of measuring the tangential and radial pedal forces such as Sanderson 16 performed at submaximal intensity.

Once again I do not argue that gross imbalances need to be corrected.

But that's an awesome anecdote the author threw in there. Didn't bother to go into 1) to what extent was the imbalance, 2) how it was (largely) corrected 3) and the resualtant power balance. Kinda sounds like an elite cyclist became a WC as soon as this supposed imbalance was corrected. Wouldn't have been years of training now, would it?

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

http://www.njdsportsinjuries.co.uk/Befo ... rt%201.pdf

Yes, I think the system is called Retul. I concur, a good fitting is essential.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

Yes, I am sure sports science researchers could make use of something that would measure pedal force dynamics. Though the labs I've seen already have this ability and have done so for quite some time.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

So, ummm, I'm not really interested in Left/Right balance issue.

I'm not really interested in the price or lack of ANT+

I am interested in how the product was released, and was it a successful release.

Has anyone here actually used these pedals yet?

Has anyone purchased them? What have your experiences been? Are they reliable?

How much did they cost, and where did you get them?

Did you need support? Where did you get support?

Cheers

Frank

One of my riders brought a pair. Constantly read low, on 2sec recording the memory was full after less than 3 hour. Brought a Quark and paired with a Garmin and is happy as.

_________________
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Double post sorry

_________________
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach