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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:38 pm 
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Discs will be the death of neutral service. Did you ever try to get the discs shimmed equally for even 2 mountain bikes to trade wheels? The clearance is so small and frames flex when clamped ,etc. I can't see pro's riding of with disc drag. Every team will have to spend hours shimming everything the same and even then some wheels and frames will have drag because the left caliper might retract more than the right caliper on one bike and vise versa on the other, etc.

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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Pro teams and racing are the best marketing tools, how many cross bikes with discs existed before the new rule, 5? Now almost every company have one (or plans to produce one).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:33 am 
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yourdaguy wrote:
Discs will be the death of neutral service. Did you ever try to get the discs shimmed equally for even 2 mountain bikes to trade wheels? The clearance is so small and frames flex when clamped ,etc. I can't see pro's riding of with disc drag. Every team will have to spend hours shimming everything the same and even then some wheels and frames will have drag because the left caliper might retract more than the right caliper on one bike and vise versa on the other, etc.


We're talking about Shimano, so it will be Center Lock discs, shimming shouldn't be a huge issue(especially for pro teams, which FOR THE MOST PART, will use the same hubs on all of their wheels).

If your having issues with the pistons not retracting evenly, I'm guessing you aren't using the new XTR brakes. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:54 am 
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We are talking about Shimano and Campy and SRAM for mutual service and only Shitmano will be using Center -we need to sell you yet another tool that you are not likely to have with you on a long ride- Lock. And before everyone tells me that it is the same tool as the cassette tool,, I had one I used for close to a decade but it did not have enough clearance for the axle parts on the brake so I had to buy a new one for brakes. Anyway, if you have actually tried to get various wheelsets to work interchangeably on mountain bikes, you will realize it is almost impossible between the tolerance for disc trueness, etc. To further muddy the water, not all brands of brakes use the same thickness of rotors and in fact not all brakes from the same manufacturer use the same thickness of rotor. Also, as another example, the lower end Shimano brakes use a different and more or less incompatable rotor material than the higher end ones. I could go on...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:05 am 
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laager wrote:
Neither SRAM nor Campagnolo is likely to be successful in pushing discs to mainstream due to their small OEM presence when compared to Shimano.


I'd say as of 2011 SRAM is a very close 2nd in OEM to Shimano, Campagnolo a very, very distant third.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:57 am 
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here are some other cons for dis
requires more spokes= more weight less aero
rims will have to be over built in order to cope with rim crack around the nipple= more weight
hubs will need to be disc ready= heavier
forks will need to be reinforced= more weight

my question is has naybody ridden a long descent with disc brakes on a roadbike or tandem. to my understanding trek made a city bike with drop bars, sti's, fenders, and disk brakes i believe the name was "portland" or something like that. i believe some tandems have had disc brakes as an option for a number of years.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:21 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
laager wrote:
Neither SRAM nor Campagnolo is likely to be successful in pushing discs to mainstream due to their small OEM presence when compared to Shimano.


I'd say as of 2011 SRAM is a very close 2nd in OEM to Shimano, Campagnolo a very, very distant third.


By close you mean less than 50% of what Shimano has OE spec, right? And if you make it just drivetrain, that number drops very significantly. In just revenue Shimano is MUCH larger than SRAM and SRAM has the benefit of a suspension line.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:26 am 
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I guess aero will not be cool any longer if disc brakes break through to road bikes. Good fix for a none issue and an excellent way to make few bucks.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:15 am 
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OMG. What is the big deal about road discs in this forum?

Hear this. As reported, the disc option will be a cable operated caliper designed for CX. You know, so you can use the same levers as normal. Its 1 new component to engineer and makes complete sence (for CX).

Use it on road if you want, but discs in road racing - yeah, good one.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:33 am 
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Milroy, the problem is the reported loss of flange spacing due to the cassette moving over. This combined with a disc on the other side, leads to an (more) unacceptable wheel. Most of us do not want discs, but I am resigned to the fact that we will eventually be riding with them, justified or not.

Also, if this eventually leads to MTB rear spacing as others suggest, it will lead to a mountain bike crank width due to chain line. At that time, I will become a retro grouch and cease to move "forward" with technology. My stance is too wide as it is. It would take a lot of mental acrobatics to convince myself this is good.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:47 am 
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roca rule wrote:
here are some other cons for dis
requires more spokes= more weight less aero
rims will have to be over built in order to cope with rim crack around the nipple= more weight
hubs will need to be disc ready= heavier
forks will need to be reinforced= more weight

my question is has naybody ridden a long descent with disc brakes on a roadbike or tandem. to my understanding trek made a city bike with drop bars, sti's, fenders, and disk brakes i believe the name was "portland" or something like that. i believe some tandems have had disc brakes as an option for a number of years.


More spokes or different spokes? Back in the day I ran 32 hole Mavic 231's on the MTB with ceramic brake track and v brakes. Now I run 28 hole X317 with discs.

Rims won't need braking surface = less weight

Calipers can be hidden by fork fairing making them more aerodynamic.

I guess there will always be those who are naysayers but the time saved on a wet descent in the Alps would more than make up for any tiny tiny weight compromise - if any existed. Hell even A Schleck might have won the Tour.

Personally I can't wait. Switching from the MTB to the road bike is like going back twenty years when it comes to braking performance. I've been thinking of going discs anyway and this way at least we will see some ultralight rims to make the most of the opportunities.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:11 am 
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UMMMMMM ANYONE EXCITED FOR THE PD-9000 SPD SL PEDALS OR THE NORMAL DUAL PIVOT BRAKES?!!!

sure the disc brakes sounds but that means a whole new standard, which means new wheelsets!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:59 am 
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Location: so. cal.
@airwise
But the rim had to be beefier at the spoke holes
On pavement I have not seen a mountain bike that goes down as fast as a road bike.
On a mountain bike they work because you have a larger contract patch.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Yea, that is another reason I have no interest in disc brakes on road bikes. I can lock the wheels now on my road bikes (with great effort) and doing so easily with discs would lead to lots of crashes. Also, I have had a road bike with a disc brake since 2004 a Santana tandem and it is not a good solution and I wish I had ordered the bike with rim brakes front and rear. It needs constant adjustment (as do some of my MTB brakes) in order to keep the disc from rubbing and unless you have a person on the rear of the tandem, the brake is way too powerful and locks the rear almost every time I use it the 1% of the time I am riding single. And I have had to replace the rear rim once already due to spoke pull through around 2 of the spokes that pull when braking and these were tandem specific rims that probably weigh 800 grams. Dual pivot brakes are progress, disc brakes on road bikes is marketing.

Also, this is WW and I can see no scenario under which you can build a road bike with disc brakes that is even close to the weight of a rim brake bike especially when you factor in all the changes to the frame, fork, wheel and the fact that the discs weigh something and the calipers are heavier; etc., etc. And then we have to talk about aero.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:42 pm 
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All the same arguments that mountain bikers used...10 years from now you'll be asking how you even rode without disc's.


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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:42 pm 
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