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 Post subject: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:57 pm 
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It seems ridiculous that this has dragged on for so long.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/ullrich-i-was-put-on-the-chopping-block

If he wants to come out of retirement and race again then yes he might have something to answer.
My view, possibly through magenta tinted glasses, is that the guy should be left alone.


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 Post subject: Jan Ullrich
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:57 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:53 pm 
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IMO the system is arbitrary and corrupt

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/11/ ... 008_198425

Pro wrestling is a step above pro cycling ethics at this point.

Look at the last five years alone, totally random prosecutions and punishments.

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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:03 pm 
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I have always liked Ulle. He seems to be a very decent person who could have easily caused an even greater carnage had he told his full story. Instead he accepted the consequences and resigned. Admittedly not the most transparent and revealing move but at least he spared everyone the drama scenes we have seen elsewhere. His statement that he had never betrayed any of his main rivals probably holds true.


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Doesn't appear to have accepted he cheated? Is he claiming he rode his whole career clean or what?


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Maybe he is not denying it or admitting so he doesn't have to be a hypocrite like all the others in his era that rde loaded on everything they could get their hands on. What difference does it make at this point? He has no come back in mind anyway!!


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:04 pm 
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dgasmd wrote:
Maybe he is not denying it or admitting so he doesn't have to be a hypocrite like all the others in his era that rde loaded on everything they could get their hands on. What difference does it make at this point? He has no come back in mind anyway!!


Well, he's talking about the 1997 Tour as his great achievement, and one might have thought whether he cheated his way to victory or not relevant?


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:15 pm 
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sawyer wrote:
dgasmd wrote:
Maybe he is not denying it or admitting so he doesn't have to be a hypocrite like all the others in his era that rde loaded on everything they could get their hands on. What difference does it make at this point? He has no come back in mind anyway!!


Well, he's talking about the 1997 Tour as his great achievement, and one might have thought whether he cheated his way to victory or not relevant?


I would say that if everyone else, or at least the majority, was riding 100% clean, then it would be relevant. But, since we all know that is not the case, to say or argue that he was clean would be hypocritical and lying. To say he did dope would simply make him the same as others that are being hypocritical by not admitting to doing so. Either way, there is not a single thing to gain in anyone's eyes.

Don't get me wrong. It passes no judgement on right or wrong or on him personally. It simple is what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:57 pm 
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dgasmd wrote:
sawyer wrote:
dgasmd wrote:
Maybe he is not denying it or admitting so he doesn't have to be a hypocrite like all the others in his era that rde loaded on everything they could get their hands on. What difference does it make at this point? He has no come back in mind anyway!!


Well, he's talking about the 1997 Tour as his great achievement, and one might have thought whether he cheated his way to victory or not relevant?


I would say that if everyone else, or at least the majority, was riding 100% clean, then it would be relevant. But, since we all know that is not the case, to say or argue that he was clean would be hypocritical and lying. To say he did dope would simply make him the same as others that are being hypocritical by not admitting to doing so. Either way, there is not a single thing to gain in anyone's eyes.

Don't get me wrong. It passes no judgement on right or wrong or on him personally. It simple is what it is.


?

I do agree with what I think you are getting at that given many of Ullrich's competitors were doping his achievement in winning the 97 Tour is greater than it would be had fewer or none of his competitors been doping.

That said, the evidence points to the guy having cheated, quite possibly for a long time. Cheating fans and clean riders. Similarly, when caught by Peurto Ullrich did deny it.

As for the earlier point in the post about going quietly, the obvious counter is that those who've blown the lid on what goes on have done much more to help create the change we've seen in the last few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:30 am 
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So there is nothing to gain by Ullrich coming out and telling us what happened in his career?

How about knowing the truth for once, instead of engaging in the constant speculation that gets us nowhere?

At this point, dragging someone like Ullrich through the coals is useless, but it would be nice to know who did what. Not for the sake of prosecuting or hanging the riders high, but just to see what some of these cats were up to.

I find the cycling culture really strange when it comes to ethics and morals.

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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:11 pm 
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J-Nice wrote:
So there is nothing to gain by Ullrich coming out and telling us what happened in his career?

How about knowing the truth for once, instead of engaging in the constant speculation that gets us nowhere?

At this point, dragging someone like Ullrich through the coals is useless, but it would be nice to know who did what. Not for the sake of prosecuting or hanging the riders high, but just to see what some of these cats were up to.

I find the cycling culture really strange when it comes to ethics and morals.


there are so many good cyclist caught doping it is hard to imagine a clean rider winning the tdf. does anyone disagree. so why speculate what is probably fact, but not known as the truth. you make it seem like you want to know what happened in the cycling tele-novela.


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:42 am 
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he's a bit tubby... :shock:

still, good to see him back on the bike and in public.


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:01 am 
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spytech wrote:
Why speculate what is probably fact, but not known as the truth.

Because when the truth is exposed there is no longer need for speculation. Therefore arguments like "he was still a talented rider" can be further clarified.

spytech wrote:
you make it seem like you want to know what happened in the cycling tele-novela.

Without substantiated proof, it will remain a soap opera, except without the babes. If you've ever seen the doping diaries Hamilton followed when he was being treated by Dr. Fuentes, it makes one wonder how on Earth can anyone compete against riders who take such massive quantities of PED's. That in itself is worth knowing.

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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:06 am 
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Hahahaha!!! I like this statement in the story:

Quote:
After Armstrong's first retirement, Ullrich was the heavy favorite to win the 2006 Tour


I wonder if that was intentional? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:22 am 
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Now you will only see virgins these days. Flying up the mountain, gallivanting their chic without a belly to show for it. :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:22 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Jan Ullrich
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:27 pm 
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I also really like to see this big guy on the road again :P


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