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 Post subject: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 366
Location: Bristol uk
I know this has been spoke about before,but this is the worst one i have seen.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pinarello-Dog ... 3a6c3f6860" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://pinarellochina.com/index.php/fra ... d.html?p=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How on earth is he getting away with asking that much for a fake,
thats over £1300 profit.

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Last edited by markyboy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:03 am 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
People are gullible.

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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:03 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 366
Location: Bristol uk
Trying to report to ebay.

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 Post subject: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 810
Location: 604
They say it's a replica... Pretty tacky but I don't know that it's breaking any rules....


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:56 am 
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petepeterson wrote:
They say it's a replica... Pretty tacky but I don't know that it's breaking any rules....

I tihnk you'd have more ground if he was advertising it as genuine. I saw one of these on my commute to work. All things considered it actually looked ok. I wouldn't buy one though.


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:31 am 
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Location: Athens, Greece
pathetic

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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 129
Define replica, I see a fake.
Could you sell other fake goods on ebay just by labelling them 'replicas'


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
Read the threads about carbon tubes filled with newspaper...

Buying a fake handbag is one thing, buying a highly engineered device which you have no way of inspecting which takes you downhill at 50mph is another. How would you feel about travelling in a boeing 747 knock off for your next holiday?


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:31 pm 
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I agree with everything and I'm in no way trying to defend these people BUT besides that newspaper story(which I'm slightly doubtful about) the vast majority of people who have bought these have been happy with them. The guys morals trying to sell a £500 frameset for £1800 is another story though!

On the flip side, what about major brands selling generic frames with their own labels on for 3 times the price? Classic example is the Willier Izoard (pedalforce) or deroas r838 (ribble)?

But this is a bit OT and we could all argue until the cows come home on this one. :D :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
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Location: Pedal Square
andyindo wrote:
On the flip side, what about major brands selling generic frames with their own labels on for 3 times the price? Classic example is the Willier Izoard (pedalforce) or deroas r838 (ribble)?

Selling something under your brand label is an entirely different thing indeed, at worst you are hampering your own reputation. Selling an imitation is an offence in increasingly many legislations. Labelling the auction "replica" will certainly not disburden you.

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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Location: In the industry
They will be happy untill their fiber glass steerers snap off on a decent and FFuking die.

All I can say is that layers of fiber glass are being sandwiched between carbon cover sheets and pass for "carbon", saving 70% of material costs. But fiber glass is no carbon and taht's why Specialized/Cannondale/Trek/Colnago/... do not use it to make frames.

It's not only lame but also potentially murderous.

Look at the China milk scandel http://www.google.com.hk/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal&sa=U&ei=Xt-7TvPFGo2viQex9Y3QBw&ved=0CBIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFaCxog01gKvVmUN8VxL8IFj_UU2w (essentially manufacturer added fatal content so the milk could show higher protein content in tests). SOME people are just horrible human beings.

andyindo wrote:
I agree with everything and I'm in no way trying to defend these people BUT besides that newspaper story(which I'm slightly doubtful about) the vast majority of people who have bought these have been happy with them. The guys morals trying to sell a £500 frameset for £1800 is another story though!

On the flip side, what about major brands selling generic frames with their own labels on for 3 times the price? Classic example is the Willier Izoard (pedalforce) or deroas r838 (ribble)?

But this is a bit OT and we could all argue until the cows come home on this one. :D :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 378
wassertreter wrote:
andyindo wrote:
On the flip side, what about major brands selling generic frames with their own labels on for 3 times the price? Classic example is the Willier Izoard (pedalforce) or deroas r838 (ribble)?

Selling something under your brand label is an entirely different thing indeed, at worst you are hampering your own reputation. Selling an imitation is an offence in increasingly many legislations. Labelling the auction "replica" will certainly not disburden you.


Ok, so if I bought some of these frames and sold and labelled them as 'Peters bikes' I'd be ok then?


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Posts: 378
elviento wrote:
They will be happy untill their fiber glass steerers snap off on a decent and FFuking die.

All I can say is that layers of fiber glass are being sandwiched between carbon cover sheets and pass for "carbon", saving 70% of material costs. But fiber glass is no carbon and taht's why Specialized/Cannondale/Trek/Colnago/... do not use it to make frames.

It's not only lame but also potentially murderous.

Look at the China milk scandel http://www.google.com.hk/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal&sa=U&ei=Xt-7TvPFGo2viQex9Y3QBw&ved=0CBIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFaCxog01gKvVmUN8VxL8IFj_UU2w (essentially manufacturer added fatal content so the milk could show higher protein content in tests). SOME people are just horrible human beings.

andyindo wrote:
I agree with everything and I'm in no way trying to defend these people BUT besides that newspaper story(which I'm slightly doubtful about) the vast majority of people who have bought these have been happy with them. The guys morals trying to sell a £500 frameset for £1800 is another story though!

On the flip side, what about major brands selling generic frames with their own labels on for 3 times the price? Classic example is the Willier Izoard (pedalforce) or deroas r838 (ribble)?

But this is a bit OT and we could all argue until the cows come home on this one. :D :wink:



I hear and understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that there are a LOT of people who have these frames and if they were actually THAT dangerous then we would have heard many more stories about them breaking. Its possible that most of them are coming out of one or two factories where they are actually ok. Doesnt mean that some may be potentially dangerous, I'm just saying that these tend to be ok.

BTW, Cannondale, spesh etc all crack/break etc. (BTW I own a Cannondale SuperSix Hm and a Colnago C40HP)

Again I'm not trying to defend them, but I dont think the frames are total POS either.

Would you feel more comfortable riding behind someone on a frame they built themselves with dodgy welding or a chinese carbon bike?


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 1530
I spent a month in China in June.
The big irony here is that even the Chinese don't like Chinese products. They know that a lot of Chinese products are either fake ripoffs or simply have no quality control. My chinese family always likes me to bring them things from the USA because they are sure they are higher quality. Weird stuff like "vitamins from Costco".
I saw a lot of fake merchandise over there. It was immediately obvious because they would contain things like misspellings of English words.
If you buy a CD or DVD over there, they don't have them in the package. You choose the title, and then the store operator just goes to his computer and burns you a copy. They do it everywhere, openly, even in nice looking stores in malls, etc. Apparently they don't even consider it "unethical" to just burn copies. They have software that bypasses copy protection schemes.

Having said all that, I am sure there are many Chinese companies that are really trying to produce good, quality merchandise. My frame is from Taiwan....but that is a wholes separate subject.

I bought my wife a fake "Luis Vittoun" handbag in China for about $10. Of course it has already ripped.


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:15 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Rip off dogma
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 pm
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Location: In the industry
Don't meant to be arrogant, but I am speaking from living in this part of the globe and having investigated these manufacturers (went to more than half a dozen of these places and met and talked to more on various occasions). I have also ridden some of these fakes and have had pretty hairy experiences as well.

For $500-600, even Chinese cyclists would rather get a CAAD10 than getting any of these. Other than looking like dogmas, these are really not racing bike frames and should not be put to any rigorous use. I am fairly certain that a good percentage of them are indeed POS. If you are lightweight and use these for slow cruises along the beach, you might be OK but why risk it?

Cannondales break too, but that's a totally different matter.

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