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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:35 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Will be run with Conti GP 4000s and some decent (but cheap) wheels. Nothing super, so weight is not a huge issue (I know, I know...I'm in the WW forum:))


I doubt you'd notice any difference between a latex and butyl inner tube with that type of tyre (except in you pocket that is).

Besides that, neither Michelin's or Vittoria's are particurlarly light. Both are of the pigmented type which isn't all that great either.
If you just want to save weight go Vredestein and use an aluminium extender if you need one. They're much lighter than a long stem valve anyhow and when mounted correctly they do not leak at all.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:28 am 
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Location: Athens, Greece
fdegrove wrote:
I doubt you'd notice any difference between a latex and butyl inner tube with that type of tyre

+1

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina, USA
Thanks for the replies to an older topic.

Okay, so you think on alloy wheels that aren't super light and with GP 4000s the switch from butyl to latex is kind of worthless, unless I want to spend money?

I think the current ride quality of the whole bike is pretty darn nice, but have read latex can make things even better.

But, if it is just a waste of money for a lateral move in ride quality, I'll save the money and spend it on other bike parts;)

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm
Posts: 369
Pick up some veloflex master 22s then add latex. Great combo. The GPs are a stiff tire nothing will help the ride quality of those things.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina, USA
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the reply. I have the Veloflex Masters on one of my bikes, a nice steel Tommasini.

I use the GP 4000s on my high-mileage carbon LOOK. Prefer the mileage and anti-flatting I get out of them, and still a decent ride.

I agree that the Masters are really smooth, great tires, just don't last too long, in my use. Also really like the Vittoria Evo Corsa CXs, but again, not that durable.

Okay, looks as if I should just stick with butyl Michelin tubes with the GP 4000s. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Based on experience I just do not subscribe to this notion that tyres build around stiff casings and outfitted with relatively soft compounds wear out less fast than tyres build around supple casings and durable natural compounds.

Put in simple words all of my Conti Comp tubulars look quite worn whereas none of my Veloflexes do....I ride my Veloflex tyres about 10 times as much as I would the Contis.....Go figure. :?:

Key with those handmade tyres is proper aging under proper storage conditions. After that: much reduced wear. No or only very few puncture and, best of all, a ride quality none of the competition comes close to.

IME, Amen. :P

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina, USA
That's an interesting take on it & one I can see being true. I'm also guessing you've been at this much longer than I have, since "aging" to me is trying to get a few extras in stock and putting them in the bottom of my closet.

What is your aging technique?

Just curious - are we talking strictly Veloflex tubulars or clinchers as well? I've never ridden tubulars, just clinchers.

I rarely flat, whether on GP 4000s, Masters/Records, or Open Corsas. I'm also pretty light & get pretty high km's out of all my tires.

Maybe I'll have to ditch all my stiff tyres and move to nice, soft, supple ones...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 am 
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Posts: 265
Michelin Aircomp is junk. Try pumping a new one up without tire and see it look like a snake ate a squash ball. That's the weak walls, that will eventually be a likely failure point. It is no wonder why Michelin has discontinued them. Get Vittoria, Bontrager or Challenge Latex instead.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:38 am
Posts: 414
Latex tubes of any kind suck. They are puncture prone and give about a 0.00000001% improvement in ride quality. Anyone who claims otherwise has sniffing tubular glue.

Latex is good for one thing, and it definitely is not inner tubes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:49 am
Posts: 265
bones wrote:
Latex tubes of any kind suck. They are puncture prone and give about a 0.00000001% improvement in ride quality. Anyone who claims otherwise has sniffing tubular glue.

Latex is good for one thing, and it definitely is not inner tubes.


Pretty much true. Don't ever pack a Latex spare tube...because it will blow, due to improper installation 99% of the time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 1037
Location: Sweden
Zachariah wrote:
Michelin Aircomp is junk. Try pumping a new one up without tire and see it look like a snake ate a squash ball. That's the weak walls, that will eventually be a likely failure point. It is no wonder why Michelin has discontinued them. Get Vittoria, Bontrager or Challenge Latex instead.



My new Vittoria latex tube did just that today, did barely inflate it at all before a portion looked like it just ate a mouse. My Michelin latex doesn't do that. Go figure... FWIW I've had lots of butyl tubes do that too, Conti and Schwalbe (among others) ön my MTB, they never failed because of that or at that point.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:42 pm
Posts: 118
How about Panaracer R Air?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

bones wrote:
Latex tubes of any kind suck. They are puncture prone and give about a 0.00000001% improvement in ride quality. Anyone who claims otherwise has sniffing tubular glue.

Latex is good for one thing, and it definitely is not inner tubes.


I am sure you're very good at maths. :roll:

Ciao, ;)

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Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:38 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Zachariah wrote:
Michelin Aircomp is junk. Try pumping a new one up without tire and see it look like a snake ate a squash ball. That's the weak walls, that will eventually be a likely failure point. It is no wonder why Michelin has discontinued them. Get Vittoria, Bontrager or Challenge Latex instead.


Latex inner tubes should not be tested without a proper supporting envelope.
What you see is by no means a sign of lack of quality. Liquid latex is notoriously hard to distribute uniformly so well it cures it will always exhibit variable wall thickness.

Yes, there are better latex inner tubes out there but the ones you mention are quite likely all made at the same factory and not necessarily better than Michelin's.

Ciao, ;)

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Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:34 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: New York City
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

bones wrote:
Latex tubes of any kind suck. They are puncture prone and give about a 0.00000001% improvement in ride quality. Anyone who claims otherwise has sniffing tubular glue.

Latex is good for one thing, and it definitely is not inner tubes.


I am sure you're very good at maths. :roll:

Ciao, ;)


ha... i bet he designs ultra low latency trading algorithms.

i carry 2 spare latex tubes, both vred's. i use them with gp4000s tires. there is a small difference - latex vs. butyl with these tires. i cant remember the last time i punctured with the gp4000s so at the moment they have aircomp latex with veloplugs. i have also run corsa 22 with latex, but never with butyl so i can not comment on the difference latex made on those compared to the conti.


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