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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:53 pm
Posts: 97
For dry and glass free roads, Veloflex or Vittoria Open Corsa

For the real world, Conti GP4000S for racing, training, commuting...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4038
Location: Natovi Landing
strobbekoen wrote:
My conclusion is that TPI alone is just a number when comparing tires of different materials, construction method etc.. apples and oranges.


That's my belief too. And if it's right then the TPI fundamentalists are I'm afraid being quite taken in by the marketing.

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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

You can have both and it will still make quite difference.

Can I have a low TPI count silk tubular, sir....? :mrgreen:

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

strobbekoen wrote:
These diamante pro lights are 220tpi nylon.
The tires on my mavics are 127TPI nylon and they are very smooth and comfortable (surprised me too!).
My conclusion is that TPI alone is just a number when comparing tires of different materials, construction method etc.. apples and oranges.


Polish a turd, at the end of the day it's still a turd. Right?

What needs to be understood is how things relate. No, TPI count on its own does not tell the whole story but neither does CRR and so on.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:20 am 
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 6:24 pm
Posts: 4438
Location: BELGIUM
What turd are you referring to ?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4038
Location: Natovi Landing
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

strobbekoen wrote:
These diamante pro lights are 220tpi nylon.
The tires on my mavics are 127TPI nylon and they are very smooth and comfortable (surprised me too!).
My conclusion is that TPI alone is just a number when comparing tires of different materials, construction method etc.. apples and oranges.


Polish a turd, at the end of the day it's still a turd. Right?

What needs to be understood is how things relate. No, TPI count on its own does not tell the whole story but neither does CRR and so on.

Ciao, ;)


Don't be so rude about the Polish. :wink:

Seriously, I don't think there is the data out there to properly understand your last point. You're right that the test data available is only part of the story and real world experience of (say) people on this board is not that much of a guide either, though it does suggest to me that the claims sometimes made for high TPI vs. other constructions are a bit OTT.

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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

strobbekoen wrote:
What turd are you referring to ?


There are a few I have in mind....
What I mean is that there's little point in covering an only so so casing with hight-tech compound that won't last for more than a couple of months or a thousand miles (whatever comes first) just for the sake of creating an attractive "marketable" product...
Some of the variations on this theme over the past six years were downright dangerous.

Voila, ze "turd". :mrgreen:

Ciao, ;)

@Sawyer: I agree we're missing tons of logged data but I'm sure there are a few people out there (like you and me, right?) who have a pretty good idea what a good tyre should be like. As a matter of fact, I think that's well known since many a decade.
We don't see that many improvements from the tried and trusted ones and that's quite probably for good reason.

What we may see in the future is more tyres being even more optimized for a specific purpose at the expensive of longevity probably, IMHO.
Anyhow, if they'd fixed that sorry state most roads are in we may not even have to have this kind of discussion.... :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:38 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Netherlands
I do like the GP4000s a lot... but they look a little "normal"

So today I did my first trip on the Schwalbe Ultremo ZX.... looks are fenomenal.... and I must say they feel fast.
Lets see how they last and how puncture proof they are...

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Pascal

2012 Colnago C59 MTBK Camapgnolo Hyperon Ultra 2 and Campi SR11
2014 Merida Big 99 CF team fully
2015 Pinarello F8 Sky Campagnolo Bora Utra 2 and Campi SR11 EPS (RIP after crash)
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 459
I've got a pair maturing in my cabinet Rodebaron, so please keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:59 pm
Posts: 429
Location: Cambridge
Used Veloflex Black for 6 years which I thought was the best, supple, easy to dismount after a flat, rarely flatted and actually quite durable.

Switched to Vittoria Open Evo SC which is better, simply due to the slight increase in volume (Which is visible), this gives a suppler ride (With Michelin air light butyl tubes) the ride is better than many cheap tubulars (i.e. any Conti's), would be even better with latex, but I have always had bulging issues with latex which annoyed me after a while.

I hope Veloflex release a open tubular version of their new arenberg or Vittoria release a 25mm version of the Open Evo SC - that would be boss. I wonder if FMB will ever produce an open tubular, the search would end there!

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:54 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2640
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Gator skins - no punctures yet itsa getting to the point where I wonder why I bother taking a tube and pump with me. I think I will still bother.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm
Posts: 1219
Location: London
owl wrote:
...would be even better with latex, but I have always had bulging issues with latex which annoyed me after a while.


:noidea: :shock: :hmm:

Fnar fnar




:sorry: :back2topic:

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4038
Location: Natovi Landing
Open tubular ... marketing speak for clincher.

SCs are nice but nothing outstanding and have compromised puncture resistance. Much as I wish they did, they don't ride any better than Ultremo ZXs, and are noisier and less robust.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:50 pm
Posts: 119
Location: UK
My 2c of real world experiences......

Caveats
a) All tires used in conjunction with Michelin Latex inner tubes
b) All tires used on "wide rim" technology e.g. HED Ardennes or Velocity A23
c) Always run 95-97psi front and rear (I weigh 72kg)
d) Surfaces ridden on range from perfect asphalt to rough chip and seal and occasional gravel/dirt road.... flat, mountain climbs, switchback descents, high speed descents
e) Roughly 1000km+/- put on each set

Michelin Pro 3 Service Course 23mm
OMG how grippy!! And OMG how quickly did these slice up and cut up and puncture, barely lasted 500k...

Michelin Pro 4 Service Course 23mm
Current tires, not a cut on them even after 1000km+, grip is spectacular especially switchback descents at high speeds and even in the wet, feedback is good (they squeal near their grip limit), puncture free to date and feel fast.
My current "go to" clincher......

Vittoria Pave 24mm
Very comfortable, roll well, very puncture resistant (one puncture in two winters a self induced pinch flat trying to bunny hop a huge pot hole at 45km on a rough road pretending to do my best impression of Museeuw at Paris Roubaix....). But they do get lots of nicks in them easily and the green centre strip whilst great when it possesses tread once it goes smooth "slips" on damp surfaces especially climbing.
I consider these a "go to" winter tire albeit one that probably needs swapping out once tread shows signs of wear....

Vittoria Corsa Evo Tech 23mm
Mediocre. Roll ok, don't seem to cut up as much as the Pave's but seem prone to punctures (4+ over the course of use). The side wall grip whilst meant to be specific to wet conditions actually seem to grip well in the wet and then suddenly "slide out" thankfully my few experiences of this have been with the back tire and have been able to keep the bike upright.
Not a tire I'd purchase a second time round.

Vittoria Corsa Evo CX 23mm
The biggest let down to my mind. Never really inspired on any one front but rather just seem good generally. Roll well and do feel fast, but like the Pave seem prone to cuts and nicks. Only 2 punctures over their time served. Felt comfortable definitely.

Mavic Griplink/Powerlink Combo 23mm
DAMN these are fast, especially on good road surfaces!!
Wear well and didn't experience any punctures. Definately a dry weather only tire IMHO.
Grip doesn't inspire as much as the michelin Pro 4's though.
However in the wet/damp my experience of these is that they are freaking lethal!!! "Slide out" in the front and rear very easily and rear slips on uphill gradients.
A dry surfaces race tire certainly....

Challenge Parigi Roubaix 27mm
I had really hoped to test these over the winter, sadly discovered 27mm tires don't fit in my S2 :cry:
So they are sat in a draw awaiting the chance to be used but would happily sell them (in the hope I could then go get some of the same in a smaller size :) )

As for Continental GP4000s they are next up once the Pro 4's wear out :)

Regards

David


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 3
Would love to try some Veloflex Master in 23s.

But do not wish to deal with latex tubes. Will the Masters still be worth it when pairing them with butyl tubes?

Or would I be better off running 23 Gatorskins for training and Attack/Force for racing with butyl tubes?


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