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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:25 pm
Posts: 742
Location: Winterpeg
KWalker wrote:
My LT is 320 and my best 1min is 712. I can hit 400w spurts to power over rollers all day without any problems and my LT has never effected my ability to put out such efforts. Neither are poor for my weight, but I found that my 5min. power had been heavily neglected due to this FTP or die approach so I trained it and BAM, FTP jumps 10 watts. An athlete should complete the power tests, fatigue profiles, and figure out what their sport requires before making the blanket statement of 'do FTP work to get better'. While it should be a huge part of most programs for general prep reasons, it might not do anything for an athlete depending on their types of races. Moreover, I found that another weakness of mine was doing L6 efforts from a Tempo pace and back down to it. I tried doing FTP work for a few months and it didn't seem to help, but doing SST intervals with bursts every 2 minutes twice a week did the trick real nice.

Anyways, to the person asking the L6 question I think its just too hard to give SAFE guidelines. Too much L6 and the wrong type of it can do more bad than good in many cases.

FTP work is base for me. Then L5/L6 and races thrown in, and presto, I'm probably pretty close to where I can get. I get much bigger boost from higher intensity than 10 watts. Last summer my FTP climbed approximately 30 watts after a healthy set of L5/L6 some MTB and road races. I don't think that I could get much stronger no matter what.

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:28 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:02 am 
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Location: Bay Area
My FTP was ~300 at the start of the season. After 6 weeks of FTP work it was 305. Stopped doing L4 intervals, started doing fast group rides and L5 work. FTP was 325 a month later and 331 2 weeks after that. I concur.

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:25 pm
Posts: 742
Location: Winterpeg
KWalker wrote:
My FTP was ~300 at the start of the season. After 6 weeks of FTP work it was 305. Stopped doing L4 intervals, started doing fast group rides and L5 work. FTP was 325 a month later and 331 2 weeks after that. I concur.

Yeah...routines in training won't take you too far.

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:37 pm
Posts: 97
Location: 3goods
Hi there i need some information, i have a training and i dont understand what exactly should do in this workout.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

25 min climbing (total) of which
10 min at Anaerobic th. (
16 min max each climb;
4 min max each Anaerobic th. effort)

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:21 am
Posts: 267
Any good non-2x20 routines for raising FTP? My current regiment has been:

10 min @ 95%
5 min rest
10 min @ 100%
5 min rest
10 min @ 105-110%
if I have anything left I do a blow out 5 minute effort, but its very rare.


My other routine has been:

10 min @ 95% FTP seated
5min rest
10 min @ 105% FTP Standing the entire time
5 min rest
10 min @ 105-110% FTP seated (essentially a blow out effort)

I'm looking for some other suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:40 am
Posts: 1327
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Try this one

10min warm up
20min 90% FTP
5min recovery
15min 95%
5min recovery
10min 95%
5min recovery
5min 100%
3min recovery
4min 100%
2min recovery
3min 100%
2min recovery
2min 100%
1min recovery
1min what ever you have left
10 min cool down

Go straight to 10 min cooldown if you get below 95% and can't get back above 95% during the 100% efforts.

I made this one up and have only ever made it through once. :lol: I usually jump straight to the 1 min smash after the 5 min effort :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:17 pm
Posts: 38
Why would you want to make a training routine with the aim of not being able to finish it?

No matter what your goal is - training to "failure" is not the way to improve fitness.
I suggest you try increasing recovery time between your FTP efforts.


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Location: Mornington Peninsula
Like all workouts - there is an out clause.
Quote:
Go straight to 10 min cooldown if you get below 95% and can't get back above 95% during the 100% efforts.

The idea of the workout is to build to a level of fitness that you can finish it.
I just haven't focused on FTP for quite a while and it shows by my inability to finish the workout I created.
Other people that use it though and have completed it say it's one of the toughest in their indoor routines.
Anyway the question was asked - it was answered.
Do you have a routine to add to the thread for FTP?

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:21 am 
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Posts: 267
xcforme wrote:
Why would you want to make a training routine with the aim of not being able to finish it?

No matter what your goal is - training to "failure" is not the way to improve fitness.
I suggest you try increasing recovery time between your FTP efforts.



Actually, I find the best workouts to be the ones that bring you to failure, but just barely.

For example, say you had to do 2x20 @ 300 watts. The first was no problem, but the second you were only able to get 290 despite giving everything you had. Because you gave everything you had and still came up short, this is one of the best workouts as it will motivate you to work harder to actually accomplish it the next time.


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:23 am 
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Posts: 38
Ghost234 wrote:
Actually, I find the best workouts to be the ones that bring you to failure, but just barely.

For example, say you had to do 2x20 @ 300 watts. The first was no problem, but the second you were only able to get 290 despite giving everything you had. Because you gave everything you had and still came up short, this is one of the best workouts as it will motivate you to work harder to actually accomplish it the next time.

Well, if you fail to complete the second interval at 300W then why not do 2x20 @ 295W instead, or do the first at 290W and try to increase to 300W in the second interval.

What do you mean by "best workout"? Pain in your thighs and a taste of blood in your mouth is not the only, nor the best indication of a good workout :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Most definitely a time and place to train to failure.

In my experience lactate threshold intervals are not ones to do this.

Usually shorter anaerobic, maybe VO2 max, intervals are when you want to train till you chuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 79
I do different routines on Tacx Trainer during the winter:

Vo2Max intervals: Warmup-3x3+3 intervals at Vo2max/50% of Vo2Max:
35 min warmup
3min 100% of Vo2Max
3min 50% of Vo2Max
3min 100% of Vo2Max
3min 50% of Vo2Max
3min 100% of Vo2Max
10 min Cooldown

Note: I use a program on the Tacx trainer which force me to keep the Watt. The bonus is that the next time I can run the routine at a procentage of the original workout. Fx. set the watt to 102% of the original. I can do the same with the workout below:

FTP intervals: Warmup-3x12+6 intervals at FTP/Recovery:
35 min warmup
12min 100% of FTP
6min Recovery zone (55% of FTP)
12min 100% of FTP
6min Recovery zone (55% of FTP)
12min 100% of FTP
10 min Cooldown

Then their is the mountain workouts where I climb some of the big climbs (1.5 hour) on the trainer at around 80-90% of FTP. This is great in so many way. To prepare for mountains, head-winds, improve FTP effort ex. I would do this on the road, if their where mountains near my home.

My 'secret' workout I stole from Chrissi Wellington. My version is a 3 hour endurance ride at around 75-80% of FTP with only 2 bottles of water, no energy in the water, no gels, bars or other sources of energy. If you try it, be ready to bonk the first time. If you do be ready to finish at a very low speed. I bonked big time and got overtaken by old men! After half a season I can do the routine without bonking. Next stop is extending the ride to 3.5 hour. This really help me be fresh at the end of races and especially at the end of multiday rides, like 6 straight days in the mountains.

A routine I have planed for my next time on the road: 2x200 meter sprint. In a 60km workout at endurance to tempo pace. Do a sprint at half way and one near the end. Its should be 200 meter sprint at max, like its the finish line. Max like in 'you cannot pedal at any reasonable speed for 10 min'.

All-in-all I make sure I dont have 2 routines that are alike in the same week.


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2922
Location: Canada
training dehydrated and glycogen depleted on purpose isnt a smart training strategy, especially when training indoors.

You dont need that kind of training to be strong at the end of a race. Please dont advise such dangerous behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 79
For the record: I dont train dehydrated, I do bring water and I would never say that you need that kind of training. What Im saying is that its my routine, and it works for me. Im not the first person it worked for. Chrissi Wellingtons version is without water and energy and without eating before the training session. I dont dare try her version at this point, but I am sure that many athletes in her sport are doing the same.

Funny you should mention that it is dangerous behavior. I have had the opposite discussion with another person on another forum. His view was that energy intake during training had a negativ influence on the bodies ability to burn fat and therefore should be avoided.


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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:18 pm 
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Posts: 2348
darkblue08 wrote:
...Funny you should mention that it is dangerous behavior. I have had the opposite discussion with another person on another forum. His view was that energy intake during training had a negativ influence on the bodies ability to burn fat and therefore should be avoided...


Funny.

Question is: what do they base this on?

There are some studies IIRC that showed minimal if any improvement and it is dangerous. We need carbs, and for decent level exercise over ~1.5hrs they are essential.

In the end the simple question is this:- does your power improve for the given period?

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 Post subject: Re: Training Routines
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:18 pm 


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