Syntace F99 / Kestrel EMS PROSL confussion

[spaniardclimber]

I am quite confused whether this combo is compatible or not, I know superlite is using it but this is the answer I got from syntace and kestrel:

Syntace:
Thanks for your interest in Syntace Products.
The F99 is an 4 point stem and need's handlebars for that. The 4 point stem is an handlebar killer and the handlebar's must build for that. I can say that our Syntace handlebar's are build for 4 point stem's, but i don't know about the kestrel handlebar.
Please ask kestrel, if the handlebar work for 4 point stems.

Kestrel:
The best stems for the Kestrel carbon bars will have a lot of contact between the insides of the stem plates and the bar....this spreads the binding force of the stem more evenly over a larger area.....Don't know that that particular stem would damage the bar but there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of contact area...Best stems have been the ITM stems....Ritchey WCS stems.....Troy.

All this came when visiting the syntace website, there is a warning message in german on the F99 section.

I think Ill get the ritchey WCS...what do you think?

[Joel]

I think you better take the Syntace stem and a light alu bar

[Florian]

I think Ill get the ritchey WCS...what do you think?

I had a long technical discussion with Jo Klieber (engineer behind Syntace) about 4 bolt stems last summer:
any 4 bolt stem stresses the handlebar more than conventional 2 bolt faceplate stems.

There's even more stress with two divided clamps (like on the F99 or the new Ritchey WCS V3), because the clamping force applies in a very small area.
He had several 4 bolt stems from different manufacturers (incl. his F99) on his testing machine and all stems cracked handlebars earlier than 2 bolt designs.
That's why he decided to reinforce his bars in the clamping area and strongly recommends to use only bars which are explicitly approved for 4-bolt use by the manufacturer.

The reinforced Syntace Al handlebars weigh 8 grams more compared to the previous non-reinforced versions.

[Franzam]

The Schmolke brothers use the F99 with their Schmolke Carbon bars. So I think this combo is stiff and durable enough

[eddd]

More info:

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/art ... 233.0.html

[KB]

I use the Syntace/Schmolke combo - they are very good. Also, the Syntace have some red rubber inserts that helps grip carbon bars without damaging them too much. They are the best set-up I have used.

[turb0]

A quick question for the Syntace F99 users... did your stem come with one or two rubber pads? From what I gather, the pads are really only for carbon bars, correct?
Thanks!
-Robert

[Superlite]

WRONG!!! Leave them in there buddy. The prevent deposites from getting into the stem. There there not for carbon bars, there there because rubber is lighter then metal.

[KB]

Superlite is right, they should be left as is, but I was told that the main reason for them was that aided grip in general, but were of greater significance for carbon bars due to the increased possibility of damage.

[turb0]

Thanks for the heads up!

So, should there be one or two of the pads supplied with a new stem?

I know that the stem is reversible, so I can see why there might only be a need for one with two holes. The reason I ask is because I won one on eBay, and it only came with one pad...

[cadence90]

see http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1316

quote="cadence90"]

So I'm looking for a used tune speedneedle or ax-lighness saddle on german ebay, and I'm wondering, I live in the states, they live in germany, and if I do everything through paypal, no problem, except for the whole language barrier thing...anyone have any experience with this?

Not really a problem, I've done this before; I've found that if you write to the seller, say sorry I don't read German and ask your questions, you'll get a perfect English response promptly (except for seller "luckynino" re: a Syntace99 stem who posts the Syntace site photo of the item, then says he's never seen red pads or the washers at the stem clamp!!! I didn't buy from him....).
Generally, I find asking simple questions, asking for the shipping costs, stating your good feedback record, all helps. I have even sent cash via Registered Mail (before PayPal was big) and never had a problem. Be prudent, informed, listen to the speed/tone of the response, and you should have no problems either.

It's interesting, German eBay has good stuff, hard to find in U.S.; Italian eBay has zero (I think eBay is not as common there yet). Good luck![/quote]

[Superlite]

except for seller "luckynino" re: a Syntace99 stem who posts the Syntace site photo of the item, then says he's never seen red pads or the washers at the stem clamp!!! I didn't buy from him....).

Nino, are you trying to swindle your fellow weight weeenies?

[Ye Olde Balde One]

FRM has this on their website, which is in favor of 2-bolt stems according to tests made by Easton allowing for better distribution of force and stress on the tube of the bar;

"2 VITI CONTRO 4 VITI
Come dimostrato da test della Easton, le chiusure a 2 viti offrono più sicurezza rispetto ai sistemi a 4 viti quando si devono serrare manubri a spessori sottili. Le 2 viti distribuiscono più uniformemente il carico sulla intera superficie che abbraccia il manubrio. Con i sistemi a 4 viti è molto più difficile distribuire uniformemente il carico. Anche se serrate correttamente, le viti alle estremità del coperchio tendono a creare una zona di pressione maggiore sul manubrio, proprio nella zona dove più il manubrio flette durante l'uso e dove ovviamente si concentrano gli stress massimali. La concentrazione della pressione creata dal sistema a 4 viti può portare a rotture a fatica. I coperchi a 2 viti sono autocentranti: permettono cioè ai carichi di serraggio di dissiparsi prima di raggiungere il bordo dell' attacco manubrio nel punto di uscita del manubrio. Gli attacchi con coperchio a 4 viti NON sono quindi consigliabili con il montaggio di manubri di basso spessore e quindi basso peso e neppure con manubri in fibra di carbonio."

[cadence90]

FRM has this on their website, which is in favor of 2-bolt stems according to tests made by Easton allowing for better distribution of force and stress on the tube of the bar;

"2 VITI CONTRO 4 VITI
Come dimostrato da test della Easton, le chiusure a 2 viti offrono più sicurezza rispetto ai sistemi a 4 viti quando si devono serrare manubri a spessori sottili. Le 2 viti distribuiscono più uniformemente il carico sulla intera superficie che abbraccia il manubrio. Con i sistemi a 4 viti è molto più difficile distribuire uniformemente il carico. Anche se serrate correttamente, le viti alle estremità del coperchio tendono a creare una zona di pressione maggiore sul manubrio, proprio nella zona dove più il manubrio flette durante l'uso e dove ovviamente si concentrano gli stress massimali. La concentrazione della pressione creata dal sistema a 4 viti può portare a rotture a fatica. I coperchi a 2 viti sono autocentranti: permettono cioè ai carichi di serraggio di dissiparsi prima di raggiungere il bordo dell' attacco manubrio nel punto di uscita del manubrio. Gli attacchi con coperchio a 4 viti NON sono quindi consigliabili con il montaggio di manubri di basso spessore e quindi basso peso e neppure con manubri in fibra di carbonio."

TRANSLATION:
2 BOLTS VERSUS 4 BOLTS
"As demonstrated in testing conducted by Easton, clamps with 2 bolts offer more security with respect to 4-bolt systems when using thin-walled handlebars. The 2 bolts distribute the load more evenly over the entire clamping surface. With 4-bolt systems it is much more difficult to evenly distribute the load. Even if inserted correctly, the bolts at the extremities of the clamp tend to create an area of greater pressure on the bar, precisely in the area where the bar flexes most during use and where, obviously, the maximum stress is concentrated. The concentration of pressure created by the 4-bolt system can cause fatigue stress. 2-bolt clamps are auto-centered: that is, they permit the clamping force to dissipate itself before reaching the edge of the clamp where the handlebar exits. 4-bolt clamps are therefore NOT advised for use with thin-wall bars (and therefore light weight) nor with carbon-fiber bars."

[Joel]

so what's the avantage of 4 bolts?