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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 76
** Updated Aug 20 2011: Pictures added, Groupset composition was a mess, cleaned up and properly WW'd, Total weights redone and grand totals put in with grand total savings **

Hi all,

I'm a Triathlete in my early 30ties. Mostly, I train for 70.3(½IM) and IM races and don't do OD/Sprints, unless its really convinient to get to and/or do one. I've done Tri seriously for little over a year now. Goal is to improve from an Ok AG athlete to a topend AG athlete. PB on the 180 km's is 5:21 in IM and 185 km's in strong sidewinds and dust rain in 5:40.

I don't do roadie training due to not having cash for a nice roadie other than my TT bike for Tri and I don't do roadie/TT races because I hate UCI rules. MTB is something I might do later down the line but mostly for fun, probably not for racing or WW'ing a MTB, because I frankly know very little about MTB so maybe in a few years time.

I mainly train Triathlon cause I like eating alot of good food while training my ass off and being buzy in general. I like the bike segment a whole alot and I commited myself to trying to get an Ultimate TT Tri only bike. This not only means shedding weight, but also to make sure its aero, stiff and just comfortable enough to wanna ride it nonstop for 180-200(Abu Dhabi) kms.

The goal with creating a WW profile and posting here is to get the absolute topend-bike-part experts to comment on my TT upgrade plans and with you guys evolve my bike from its now nearly stock state towards a green rocket. The timeframe for getting the parts and stuff is 2 years from now, so September 2013 if all goes well and I don't lose my job or crash and die etc.

-----------

Nuff bout me, the bike as it stands today:

Quintana Roo CD0.1 2010 stock
Edit: Stock = http://www.evanscycles.com/products/qui ... e-ec024074
+ CSN XL50 Carbon Tub wheels on Conti Sprinter Gatorskins for training and race(Yeah I know its Crr is hiiiigh, but few flats during training motivated me more for IM number 1)
(Front wheel is 679-680g(kitchen gram scale, 2kg, 1gram intervals, with screw, without tubular, unglued), Rear is (not weighed yet and tubulared atm so not bothering), guess-stimate is 1800g total)
+ Stem replaced by Syntace F139 17degree(139g) for fitting at Retül fitter.
+ Xlab Superwing with 2xGorilla(162g = 86g + 2x38g)
+ Speedfil drinkingsystem(298g for complete system)

Weight atm is just a touch over 9,0kg's, I'm still waiting for that Kern HDB 10K10 which is max 10kg and 10grams intervals, hanging scale, seems like the optimal bike part weight for big parts, so the 9,0kgs is based on bathroom scale with me contra me+bike and 100gram intervals.

The expansion plan in rough numbers and with the weight I could predict(I'm probably missing something in the weight count, please tell me if you spot something):

1295g Frameset: QR CD 0.1 2010 Frame and Fork, QR CD0.1 Seatpost, FSA Orbit IS2 Headset(80g), total weight estimated 1295g (for my size ML)
1531g Wheels: Zipp 404 FC Carbon Clincher front+back, 1531g for set
0560g Handlebar: Hed Corsair E, 530g, +30g for tape
0175g Barend Shifters: Sram R2C Aero, 175g
0139g Stem: Syntace F139 17degree, 139g(required 17degree for fit, hope fit can be kept with adjustment to handlebars)
0071g Front Deraileur: Sram Red 2010, front derailer
0143g Rear Deraileur: Sram Red 2010, rear derailor
0151g Cassette: Sram Red 2010, OG-1090 cassette
0257g Chain: Sram adviced chain for Red, Sram PC 1091R, 257g
0128g Gear Cables: Sram Red 2010 shiftercables, Gore RideOn Shift Cables
0059g Chainring 1: Sram Red, 42t/130BCD chainring, weight is guesstimated, 39t/130BCD is 55g
0165g Chainring 2: Sram Red TT 2011, solid 54t/130BCD chainrings compatible with Sram Red chainset, 165g
0090g Bottom Bracket: Enduro Zero Ceramic, Grade 3, rumored to wears out fast, but I will only use the bike on tarmac so should be Ok, 90g
(0492g) Mutually Exclusive A1: Chainset: Sram Red 2010, 170 mm 39/53, BB30 edition, 492g = 637g - 90g Chainring2(53) - 55g Chainring1(39)
(0436g) Mutually Exclusive A2: Chainset: FSA K-Force Light Double BB30, comes with own ceramic BB, 432g = 612g - 90g Chainring2(53) - 55g Chainring1(39) - 90g Enduro Bottom Bracket + 53g K-Force Ceramic BB
0116g Brake levers: Sram TT 990 brake levers, 116g
0260g Brakes: TRP Brakes, 260g, I assume this is with brake cables but dunno.
0260g Saddle: Stock QR unless uncomfortable, didn't happen last IM, ca 260g(fitted so not touched/weighed yet)
0588g Tires/Tubes: 2xBontrager R4 tires with Latex inner tubes, 588g = 2*164g tires + 2*130g tubes
0050g Power Meter: Garmin Vector, power meter pedals, 50g, Look Keo(assumed, unknown for now)(released March 2012)
0072g Computer: Garmin 310XT headunit(64g on kitchen scale) on Quick Release mount(assumed to weigh 8g)

Total weight 6,602g(assuming A1 and that I'm not missing something vital, brake cables maybe)

Ready and loaded for T1 on an IM distance: 7,783g = 6,602 grams + 1,181g(assuming the lightweight optimized A2+B3 package from my post below). Thats a grand total of 9,450g + 2,557g = 12,007g - 7,783g = 4,224g worth of weight saved! I'd say that's worth pursuing :)

In all in Excel I got this longterm plan to £3883(subject to massive change ofc) but realistically doable over 2 years.

The performance goal is to get my body is shape for 4:45 for 180 and then hopefully the parts on the bike will get me closer and closer towards 4:30.

---Pictures---
Image
Image
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Comments welcome.


Attachments:
IMG_0395 (Small).JPG
IMG_0395 (Small).JPG [ 90.54 KiB | Viewed 3327 times ]
IMG_0397 (Small).JPG
IMG_0397 (Small).JPG [ 90.08 KiB | Viewed 3327 times ]

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My Intro, TT bike and Aero/WW Upgrade plan
"A forum post should be like a skirt - long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting."


Last edited by Bvb45 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:28 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Welcome. :welcome: We look forward to your contributions here, particularly in the Training forum which may be of interest to you.

Please provide pictures of your bike, 'as stock' or not. :thumbup:

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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:58 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 76
Thank you very much. I thought a picture would be silly as its stock mostly atm, but I will take one tomorrow when the sun is shining(hopefully!).

Do you see any parts missing in my "Gram-sheet" ?..Its not so much because I want the lightest, its mostly to be accurate gramwise(especially here on WW!) and max the Aero without getting silly expensive or unreliable, for the info it might provide to others.

I saw a WW guy with a nice motto I liked: "AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT". Thats what I'm going for and I think its also fun to actually see and feel the bike improve!

Sidenotes,
- As for the Frame:
I know there are lighter frames out there and QR recently made the Illicito frame which is even more aero than the CD0.1 frame, but in Triathlon competitions there are other not so obvious concerns like the color of your bike in the T1 zone. A green and yellow frame is damn easy to spot among thousands of black/red/white bikes! :D I've walked T1 routes before races, but in the haze, rush and hassle an (almost) unique colorlayout is SO helpfull! So therefore I keep the frameset and maybe change it in 2014 or 2015 at earliest.
(btw, QR CD0.1 2010 frame = QR CD0.1 2011 frame according to my Retül fitter)

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My Intro, TT bike and Aero/WW Upgrade plan
"A forum post should be like a skirt - long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting."


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
For Tri concentrate more on aero. There is some increasing interest in aero here, but as the majority of riding on this forum is not TT or Triatholon, you will encounter many in-depth and continual debates on the merits of aero frames (non-TT/Tri).

The forums at SlowTwitch are more oriented for TT/Tri specialists.

As for colour: no reason you can't get your rig custom painted however you want!

I have a friend who used to do Tris (she still does, but we've lost touch) - she would set up her transition area perfectly, but before the race place a teddy bear of somesort on bike, something that would be visible from a distance as everyone was running into the pits. Quick change, grab the doll (she gave it a quick kiss... actually that was the best part, she is incredibly hot) tossed it aside and rode off. She said it helped lighten the mood when everyone is so cross-eyed with racing adrenaline. Might be something to consider with your own twist?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:22 am
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Location: Washington, DC
:welcome:

Please do post a (or more) picture of your ride.

And do check out the training forum here...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Posts: 134
Bvb45 wrote:
Total weight 6528 grams(assuming I'm not missing something vital)
From one triathlete (although no Ironman!) to another, thats great in theory, but if you are a typical IM'er, then chances are you will overload your bike with so much gear, you bike weight is almost irrelvant.
Bvb45 wrote:
The performance goal is to get my body is shape for 4:45 for 180 and then hopefully the parts on the bike will get me closer and closer towards 4:30.
Comments welcome.

IMO, I would spend the money on getting aero and getting fast.
So either spend your money on a visit to a wind tunnel (getting very aero means getting fast on minimal power) or (my preference), buy a powermeter.

A powermeter is a great tool for racing Ironman because you can ;
1. Use it to nail your training and improve your fitness
2. Use it to pace your race. A 10 minute slower, evenly paced bike split could easily save you more than 30 minutes in the marathon
3. Use it to get aero. Plenty of info on the net detailing on how to use your PM to improve you position on the bike and get you as slippery as possible.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:16 am 
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Posts: 6273
Location: Urbana, Illinois
:welcome: Another welcome here. I love to see the tri/tt bikes and yours is a fine example. I'm finish up this year on my current frame and have picked up a Scott Plasma 2 for next year. While its not really free speed but speed you don't have to train any hard to get! The new frame that is.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:03 pm 
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Hey Andrew, thx for the comments,

My optimizations will still shed near 3 kg off my bike and I can't think that this won't help alot going up all those hills, but more importantly because I don't really wan't a roadie bike; I want to use this bike for even mountainous 70.3/IMs like Silverman, Lanzarote, St.George and maybe Norseman within the next 5 years.

I don't overload my bike that much I think, last IM I had: (I weighed most of these myself just now on my kitchen scale)

0280g 1 spare pre-stretched, pre-glued tubular, Conti Sprinter Gatorskin
0058g CO2 canister
0015g Xlab Speed Chuck V2(It says 17, but mine showed 15..)
0082g 1 Vittoria Pitstop
0086g Xlab Superwing
0076g 2xGorilla bottles holders* (Pricy, but they NEVER drop a bottle)
0086g 1 transparant High5 bottle, marked with 12 stripes, full of the content of..
0750g ..12 SiS Isogels(750ml)(Optimal bike nutrition for me, don't take in anything else till run)
0298g I use a Speedfil system(for Aero and cause I can drink while in the bars, might be Torhans Aero 30 in the future for a less bothersome system)
0750g Energywater in Speedfil max 750ml in it at a time, refilled once only at the 90-120km aid station.
0086g* 1 aid station bottle..
------
2557g extras, not including tape and reuseable strips holding the Pitstop, tubular, Speedfil tube, Speed Chuck in place. Bag solution too heavy.

*: The other empty bottleholder is then carrying the empty aid station bottle 20km till next bottle drop at the next aid station. Littering is penalized quite hard now and bottle drops AFTER an aid station seems to be a BIG afterthought where I raced, could shave me 86g bottle + 38g Gorilla + 1g screws = 125g to just drop the bottle once refilled the Speedfil. I don't use other aid stations and I tried to refill the Speedfil going down hills where pedalling wasn't giving me much total gain.

5 odd pounds IS alot of weight, but regardless of my bike weighing 6.5kgs or 9kgs that stuff will still be there.


I tried to think about lightening up the extras:
----------------
-0000g The IsoGels in a bottle works as opposed to regular Gels taped to the bike, takes too long to open, sometimes splatter all over the bike, aid stations often don't have Isogels, plus littering issues. I'll stick to what works here.

(-0020g) Mutually exclusive A1: Going Clincher. Drop the tub, add 2 Latex tubes at 130g a piece. -280g + 2x130g = -20g
(-0150g) Mutually exclusive A2: Going Clincher. Drop the tub, add 1 Latex tubes at 130g. -280g + 130g = -150g
(-0353g) Mutually exclusive A3: Dropping any spares, plus CO2 and Speed Chuck, relying entirely on Pitstop for flat(s). Risky but I've ridden 140kms once on a tub entirely inflated by only Pitstop so it can work, even though 4.0 bars / 58psi, which Pitstop can give a tire, is not doing my Crr any favors. I usually start riding with 8.5bar / 123 psi.
(-0435g) Mutually exclusive A4: Dropping anything for flat(s) so A3 but no Pitstop either. Extremely risky!

(-0104g) Mutually exclusive B1: Speedfil out, Torhans in. -298g + 194g = -104g. However the Speedfil is tugged away more and the pipe is aero when not used(looks like a third aerobar stick)
(-1296g) Mutually exclusive B2: Drinking only fluid at/through aid stations, one big gulp then ditch liquid canister, its possible but risky. Ditch liquid, bottle, bottleholder, drinking system. -750g - 86g - 298g - 38g = -1172g. Then ditch Xlab system and place Gorilla on the downtube for Gel bottle, -1172g - 86g - 38g = -1296g.
(-1226g) Mutually exclusive B3: B2, but using Torhans for Gels and drinking only at/through aid stations. Ditch Gorilla and bottle, add Torhans. -38g - 86g + 194g =
------
-1376g Total for B3 and A2 would be a semisafe Weight Weenie solution for a hilly course. 180km without a flat is just too risky in my book.

2557g - 1376g = 1181g of total extra junk for an optimal grand total of 7806g of bike at the start of the 180km and less than 7kg after 170km(Gels gone).

Thx for inspiring me todo this math Andrew, it was actually quite thought provoking and your'e absolutely right, my "not much" junk was 5 pounds LOL.


Regarding your comments I agree on the "Aero first, then weight" when it comes to Tri bikes, but I think I've done that actually. The weight has been a secondary goal:
- The frame could be 300g lighter if I took a Storck but last name aint Rockefeller and I believe QR when they say it has a pretty good topend Aero value on the frame.
- The Speedfil / Torhans is only there cause its aero, cause a Gorilla+bottle would be lighter and less bothersome.
- The Zipps werent chosen for weight, then I would've gone for Lightweight VR8 or Zipp 303 with tubulars. I wanted clinchers and Zipp 404 FC has the max Aero value of any carbon clinchers I've heard off and then I can get to use the Bontrager R4 Aero tires which I'm really excited about. The Specialized Mondo Open Tubular can't be bought in my region so I had no feedback on them, while the R4 are available fast and buddies say they are Ok.
- The handlebar was chosen because its very versatile in fitting it, ie screws and adjustability everywhere, so my Retül fitter can eventually re-fit me easily for max power output over 180.
- The Garmin Vector was chosen because it has a very lightweight compared to conventional power meters and I don't think Garmin would put rubbish on the street after 3 years of dev and purchasing a whole company just for that product, so I am getting a power meter, when it comes, even one that can tell me more info about my pedalling than others.
- The brake levers were chosen for their awesome turn-and-adjust feature.
- The ceramic BB were chosen cause my a TT friend told me its pure extra gain right there, so also kinda Aero, not chosen for weight.
- The FSA K-Force was chosen for weight, but is probably something I only might buy a long time after the Sram Red group set and might end up with full Sram Red and a ceramic axle unless the Red comes with that too. I think the K-force will be deadlast on the buylist.

So I kinda see it as a maxed-Aero-semi-Weight-Weenied TT Tri-only(not UCI, the frame alone is illegal..) bike, to the best of my current knowledge and without resorting to extreme parts.

I fully agree on the steady ride makes a faster run. Last race I was in, the pro lead T2 man had 22 minutes lead and dropped out after 28km in 9th position.. I'm still new to powerriding, as I havent got a power meter till Garmin gets Vector out and then I think I will be aiming for 280-300 watt average, maybe lower in the start for 180, but 280 for 90 in 70.3 sounds "not crazy" in my ears.

---------
Thank you Juan :thumbup:

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My Intro, TT bike and Aero/WW Upgrade plan
"A forum post should be like a skirt - long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting."


Last edited by Bvb45 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 76
prendrefeu wrote:
For Tri concentrate more on aero. There is some increasing interest in aero here, but as the majority of riding on this forum is not TT or Triatholon, you will encounter many in-depth and continual debates on the merits of aero frames (non-TT/Tri).

The forums at SlowTwitch are more oriented for TT/Tri specialists.

As for colour: no reason you can't get your rig custom painted however you want!

I have a friend who used to do Tris (she still does, but we've lost touch) - she would set up her transition area perfectly, but before the race place a teddy bear of somesort on bike, something that would be visible from a distance as everyone was running into the pits. Quick change, grab the doll (she gave it a quick kiss... actually that was the best part, she is incredibly hot) tossed it aside and rode off. She said it helped lighten the mood when everyone is so cross-eyed with racing adrenaline. Might be something to consider with your own twist?


I've tried to explain my choices in a new post above here, I wen't Aero first and then WW after that.

I know Slowtwitch and read them often too, but I like WW forums too, the level of knowledge is so INCREDIBLY high! I'll go for other forums for Swim and Run but for Bike, WW rules imo.

Custom color paintjobs are really expensive here, but yeah its a possibility :)

Regarding your girl friend there: Its not allowed to mark bikes down anymore. Even a bright neon beachtowel under the bike is now illegal or so I heard.
From the latest two race guides:
Quote:
Please note that it is not allowed to mark your bike with balloons or alike. The race marshals will remove such effects.


So bike color is the only allowed visual aid for that. I walk the T1 route 3-5 times, but the stress still makes one blind at times :)

Edit: The towels are now illegal as well, checked with a former marshall.

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My Intro, TT bike and Aero/WW Upgrade plan
"A forum post should be like a skirt - long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting."


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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:13 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Posts: 76
Heavily edited the first post to make it more readable.

I've learned a bunch from just writing it so that alone was a project worth doing!

I still like the plan, its Aero first then Weight, but they go nicely hand in hand. Realisticly I'm gonna have to add 750g for a 2nd water bottle in the grand total though as drinking through aid stations alone, as in catch-bottle-2-gulps-drop-bottle x 6, might slow me down more and is subject to littering zones being available after the aid stations and not before..alternatively grab bottle, drink 2 gulps, empty bottle, place empty bottle in holder till next aid station, drop it in litter zone before just before aid station, repeat grab bottle...

I still near to figure out if my brakes's weight is without brake cables and what those I got weigh, as the brakes are fine as they are.

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My Intro, TT bike and Aero/WW Upgrade plan
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