level or sloping
Moderator: robbosmans
Given a "xs, s, m, l, xl" sizing scheme, you like sloping or level toptube?
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Sloping top tubes look cool and are all the rage now, but I was told by a very well-respected custom frame builder that this particular application is more a style over substance thing, that it actually detracts from the stiffness of the frame. But he makes them because the public demands them. As for me, I think sloping frames in carbon are very nice. I would add a custom geometry option only because I am very particular about my geometry amd I'm sure I'm not the only one. 
I don't really care, but the most I like +/- 4cm sloping frames.
But it's nearly the same, the only thing I want is that my frame has a seat tube angle between 73 and 74° and my top tube has to be as long as my seat tube (both c-c) or max 1.5cm longer
But it's nearly the same, the only thing I want is that my frame has a seat tube angle between 73 and 74° and my top tube has to be as long as my seat tube (both c-c) or max 1.5cm longer
Given the limited sizes I would say level since every sloping frameset I have looked at has a head tube that is too long or if that's ok a top tube that is too short for me.
I really think sloping is a fad that manufacturers like because it reduces the number of frame sizes they have to make, kind of like how they like wishbone seatstays to reduce the work and joints in producing a frame. The extra seatpost probably weighs as much as the frame tube would and since it's smaller diameter the seatpost will flex more too. Up to a point that makes it more comfortable but defeats the supposed additional stiffness of a sloping frame.
After seeing them enough in races and on TV people start feeling like that's how a frame should look and then we're stuck with them.
I really think sloping is a fad that manufacturers like because it reduces the number of frame sizes they have to make, kind of like how they like wishbone seatstays to reduce the work and joints in producing a frame. The extra seatpost probably weighs as much as the frame tube would and since it's smaller diameter the seatpost will flex more too. Up to a point that makes it more comfortable but defeats the supposed additional stiffness of a sloping frame.
After seeing them enough in races and on TV people start feeling like that's how a frame should look and then we're stuck with them.
Is this ? re: stock (production) frames only?
Then perhaps market appeal is the driver...
I have read both pro and con re: performance, and I personally think esp. on larger sizes some of the more radical slopes look really ridiculous, but more importantly (besides the weight/flex) of the seatpost create an imbalanced center of gravity. The sloping thing, as indiscriminately as it is applied, often feels like market hype to me.
Stick to well-conceived, well-integrated, well-executed design.
Cutom? Anything goes....as long as it works.
Then perhaps market appeal is the driver...
I have read both pro and con re: performance, and I personally think esp. on larger sizes some of the more radical slopes look really ridiculous, but more importantly (besides the weight/flex) of the seatpost create an imbalanced center of gravity. The sloping thing, as indiscriminately as it is applied, often feels like market hype to me.
Stick to well-conceived, well-integrated, well-executed design.
Cutom? Anything goes....as long as it works.
"Gimondi è un eroe umano, che viene sconfitto ma che continua la sua corsa fino a tornare a vincere." - Enrico Ruggeri
Semi-sloping looks good in my opinion, but have no evidence to say it's better. I just like it. I've had semi-sloping custom made frames and the framebuilder said it wasn't a problem. He says it's all about the strength of the welding. He makes and repairs for a number of 'badged' firms and states that he's seen some of the handiwork on supposedly bombproof titanium where the tubes have snapped. It's the ability of the framebuilder and having seen some others' handiwork he stated that the best builder is Pegoretti for steel frames and has a high regard for DeRosa.
The beauty of the sloping technology is that one bike can fit for quite a few years. For instance, my son is 13. In the last year 2 years he's grown about 6 inches. I bought him a mountain bike 2 years ago - waste of money as riding a bike's too much like hard work compared to football. He's now 5'9" and still growing, but the bike still fits. It was a bit big when he got it. Now he looks fine on it. I think that was the underlying principle behind Mike Burrows design.
By the way, how do I vote on this subject?
The beauty of the sloping technology is that one bike can fit for quite a few years. For instance, my son is 13. In the last year 2 years he's grown about 6 inches. I bought him a mountain bike 2 years ago - waste of money as riding a bike's too much like hard work compared to football. He's now 5'9" and still growing, but the bike still fits. It was a bit big when he got it. Now he looks fine on it. I think that was the underlying principle behind Mike Burrows design.
By the way, how do I vote on this subject?
nicrump wrote:Given a "xs, s, m, l, xl" sizing scheme, you like sloping or level toptube?
Re: sizing scheme:
"Perhaps the biggest advantage of this construction, though, is that Cannondale plans to offer 12 different frame sizes when the six13 becomes available in April. That's a respectable range, and should allow most riders to get a decent fit, addressing the most common complaint about composite bikes that the restricted range of frame sizes makes precise fitting difficult."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id= ... news/feb11
Maybe it's less about sloping or level, and more will it fit right....it seems that so many sloping configurations rely so much on the supposed "wider range of fit" that they're too general. Esp. for a U.S. mnfr, a wider range choice would be great.
"Gimondi è un eroe umano, che viene sconfitto ma che continua la sua corsa fino a tornare a vincere." - Enrico Ruggeri
Of course it's about fit and is the main reason I desisted from going down the carbon route for so long. I like a long head tube to avoid loads of scruffy spacers (for instance Lanc'es TREK looks awful in my opinion), but this usually means a top tube that's too long as well. What I did with the TCR was to buy a stem 1cm shorter and tilt it up 6degrees. Thereafter the set-up was fine. I don't have that problem with my steel bike becuase it was custom built. However, the difference in cost is astronomical. The TCR cost is extremely good value for money. I enquired about the Carrera Pit Bull in a custom carbon and was quoted nearly Pounds Sterling 3,000 (over $5,000). I just wasn't prepared to pay that sort of money when I could save significant weight on components.
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had an TCR aluminum (ultegra components) back in the day and in comparison to any level bike I've ridden, it always felt like the center of gravity was lower on the TCR...it flicked back and forth with aplomb, so climbing out of the saddle was easier 
at least that's my perception. this was prevalent enough that ever since I sold that bike, I think about it climbing out of the saddle...of course maybe that's because I'm riding a 'level' steel Independent Fabrication (full record) now which is a bit heavier.
still, makes me dream of a TCR composite...
at least that's my perception. this was prevalent enough that ever since I sold that bike, I think about it climbing out of the saddle...of course maybe that's because I'm riding a 'level' steel Independent Fabrication (full record) now which is a bit heavier.
still, makes me dream of a TCR composite...
I miss my IndyFab Crown Jewel...
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secularist
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damn I wish they sold those in the states...Scott "everywhere but in the" USA
money looking ride.
money looking ride.
I miss my IndyFab Crown Jewel...
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you going to have the CR1 in March probably...well here they sell the Cr1 in march... 
