HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 312 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 21  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 18
Location: Los Angeles
maquisard wrote:
No matter what Cannondale say, the round/oval downtube and less bulky BB area will not be as stiff as the massive squoval tubes and BB found on the likes of the new Cervélo R5 and Canyons SLX.


The thing with composites is that you can't make that judgment based only on appearances. Different layup schemes, different "wall" thicknesses, and different grades of carbon fabric can result in vastly different stiffness characteristics for the same outer mold line.

In the end, what you say may be true, but we won't know until people start riding them and testing them.

It's great to see builders really taking advantage of the design flexibility that is possible when working with composites. I had a bad experience with an aluminum Cannondale many years ago that put me off the brand, but this bike has my attention. I look forward to Peter Denk's version of the Synapse.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:59 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 953
Location: France
Fair point, it will be interesting to see definitive test results for lateral bottom bracket deflection and head tube stiffness.

It is definitely good to see the likes of Cervélo getting more competition, it will only benefit folks like us buying the bikes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am
Posts: 203
Sam wrote:


Must be for different frame sizes. On small frames, exiting out the seatstay/top tube junction wouldn't work --- your exit point would be too low for the brake to be effective without throwing in a crazy loop in the cable.

Take a look at any small size frame and you'll see what I mean.

_________________
Scott Foil Team Issue, Cervelo R3, Strong Titanium


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:49 am
Posts: 1261
2ndgen wrote:
With an Enve 1.0, this frameSET would come in at under 1000g.
This frame requires a 1 1/8 to 1 1/4" tapered fork so an Enve 1.0 fork wouldn't work because it only comes in 1 1/8". Also, a tapered steerer Enve fork weighs more than the one included in the frameset. I'm sure that if you cut the Cannondale fork to length for, say, a 54cm frame and without spacers, it will easily be under 1kg anyway.

_________________
RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:49 am
Posts: 1261
Epic-o wrote:
I'm tired of STW graphics...why don't just show the stifness and weight numbers and let us do the stupid divison?

The SuperSix EVO seems a new benchmark in stifness but when you get the real stiffness values (STW*Weight) the Tarmac SL3 one are 10Nm/º higher. The choice of STW graphics seems a marketing decision but we aren't stupid.
It's a simple calculation. According to Zedler's findings, the SuperSix Evo has a stiffness (not STW) of 98.7Nm/deg. STW just makes it look a lot more impressive, however, by no means is this frame a noodle. The S-Works Tarmac SL3 has been measured at 108.2Nm. Can you really FEEL the difference between the two?!

The R5CA is said to be 97Nm/deg by those same Zedler diagrams...

_________________
RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:41 pm
Posts: 724
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
djconnel wrote:
njleach wrote:
Cannondale back their frames with a lifetime warranty regarding any issues with workmanship and/or materials so even if you do have an issue it's not like you've got to fork out more $$$. Personally i'd rather spend 1/3 of the r5ca's price for a bike 1g lighter + the lifetime frame warranty...


That's fine. But that's just your view. To someone else, the perception that more time and care is spent building the R5-CA is worth the extra cost. Nobody in their right mind would compare a Cannondale to a Calfee or Crumpton: the latter two are hand-built by artisans as opposed to pumped through an assembly line with a ticking clock.


but is R5-CA build after the riders weight and length? otherwise i don´t know if it´s right to compare it to Calfee or Crumpton either :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Lyon
mythical wrote:
Epic-o wrote:
I'm tired of STW graphics...why don't just show the stifness and weight numbers and let us do the stupid divison?

The SuperSix EVO seems a new benchmark in stifness but when you get the real stiffness values (STW*Weight) the Tarmac SL3 one are 10Nm/º higher. The choice of STW graphics seems a marketing decision but we aren't stupid.
It's a simple calculation. According to Zedler's findings, the SuperSix Evo has a stiffness (not STW) of 98.7Nm/deg. STW just makes it look a lot more impressive, however, by no means is this frame a noodle. The S-Works Tarmac SL3 has been measured at 108.2Nm. Can you really FEEL the difference between the two?!

The R5CA is said to be 97Nm/deg by those same Zedler diagrams...


No, I can't feel the difference but if I wanted to buy one of this top-end frames i would ask myself what stiffness values I really need and I would choose the lightest frame of all of them that have higher stiffness numbers than what I need.

They could build a 400gr frame with 65Nm/º ST and 162.5Nm/ºkg STW. Impressive? No

_________________
BIKE DESIGN AND +

http://cds-0.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:49 am
Posts: 1261
I would ride such a frame! Hell, 65Nm/deg is plenty stiff for me. It was more than adequate in the old days, so why wouldn't it be today?

Anyway, what's more important is that frames are compliant with present-day safety testing, such as the new UCI or EN standards. The SuperSix Evo frame is already on the UCI '11 approved list where may others still aren't. http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTYwNzQ&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NjczMDE&LangId=1

I wonder when the UCI will do away with the 6.8 kg weight limit... :roll:

_________________
RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:25 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles USA
In general , these WW wars can only benefit us, as Cervelo, now Cannondale, join the extreme low weight range. I can remember only a few years ago the Addict blew my mind with a 800g frame, now this... imagine in 10-20 years we'll be riding very stiff frames in the 400g range with forks under 200g. :o Great time to be living if you're a Weight Weenie! :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7327
Location: San Francisco, CA
JensW wrote:
djconnel wrote:
That's fine. But that's just your view. To someone else, the perception that more time and care is spent building the R5-CA is worth the extra cost. Nobody in their right mind would compare a Cannondale to a Calfee or Crumpton: the latter two are hand-built by artisans as opposed to pumped through an assembly line with a ticking clock.


but is R5-CA build after the riders weight and length? otherwise i don´t know if it´s right to compare it to Calfee or Crumpton either :D


I agree. I'd put the R5-CA between the Calfee & Crumpton and the Cannondale on the "artisan" scale, or at least the "perceived artisan scale". For all I know Cervelo tosses them together sloppier than the efficiency-optimized factory working for Cannondale.

So many complained when Cannondales went to Taiwan for the CAAD-10, but then when the bikes came out, I don't see many people seeking out the old CAAD-9's because they were "made in the US". All reports are that the CAAD-10 is the better frame.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:25 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles USA
Im suprised to see Cannondale go completely "retro" as far as tube shaping. Cannondale was one of the original large diameter proponents in their aluminum bikes way back when, then witness the Hi Mods and this years radical CAAD10 enlarged tube shapes. Of course its not only Cannondale, but now it's back to skinny, almost purely round tubes. Full circle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7327
Location: San Francisco, CA
... and I really like it!

And I think the geometry is spot on (at least for me). More size options than almost anyone except Colnago, with short head tubes: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/road/el ... mate-19273

The 53.5 cm comes very close to what I'd spec for a custom frame.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:18 pm
Posts: 617
The stock Cannondale fork only weighs 20g more than an Enve anyway at 315g uncut. Not much.
The only lighter frameset is a Cervelo R5 CA I believe and even that's only by 19g.
But, the 'Dale performed better in testing.
Can't wait to test one.

_________________
Project CAAD9 7.2kg
The CAAD Build Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:49 am
Posts: 1261
Why not use a 3T Rigida tapered fork? It's specified at 285g uncut. :thumbup: http://www.3tcycling.com/products.aspx?i=road&t=Forks&p=rigida

It doesn't look as nice as the Cannondale fork designed for the SuperSix Evo frame but the rake is about the same.
Image

_________________
RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:25 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles USA
If the prices I hear are correct, it's low $6000 for the entry Evo. But if you look at the specs sheet, its otherwise similiar (actually, I think it's identical) to the current Hi-Mod Red- Ksyrium Elite, Red, FSA, etc. Sure, Id rather have the Evo, but at a $1300 price premium, thats a lot to pay for 220 grams and slightly more aero. You can buy a HM-Red, sell the Elite wheelset, plus with the price savings buy yourself a pair of R-Sys Sl's and feel a lot more improvement for the money. Im not hating now, I'm a huge Cannondale fan, but it seems the HM Red seems such a better value.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:45 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 312 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 21  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Nismo4x4, tnc1970 and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cannondale Super Six Evo Warranty Voided

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

Ladeira

19

2122

Tue May 20, 2014 2:19 pm

jostanderhub View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Sapim Super CX-Ray

in Road

MisterEd

10

1201

Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:10 am

WMW View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. De Rosa Super King???

in Road

colster

1

752

Sat May 31, 2014 5:27 am

nmrt View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Super Record EPS RD Question

in Road

mpower

6

600

Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:49 am

Causidicus View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Top Tube Crack - Super-X Hi-Mod?

in Road

tojnom

5

930

Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:10 am

tojnom View the latest post


It is currently Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:46 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB