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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:42 pm 
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I have seen online that Velo news has tested 4 aero bikes. Has anyone gotten this issue yet. If so can you post a quick summary of the findings?


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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:42 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:20 pm 
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I think that it is in the March or April issue or something, I couldn't find anything more than a mention of it other than that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:59 pm 
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jimusan wrote:
I think that it is in the March or April issue or something, I couldn't find anything more than a mention of it other than that.


April, but they're back-dating their issues now so it will be shipped relatively soon.

I look forward to it, except not as many bikes as Tour and Tour used a control bike (Cannondale Super-6) which was a nice touch. Additionally, Tour used a dummy rider while it appears VeloNews is testing full bikes, which can overestimate the effect of aero seatposts and seat tubes.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:40 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
jimusan wrote:
I think that it is in the March or April issue or something, I couldn't find anything more than a mention of it other than that.


April, but they're back-dating their issues now so it will be shipped relatively soon.

I look forward to it, except not as many bikes as Tour and Tour used a control bike (Cannondale Super-6) which was a nice touch. Additionally, Tour used a dummy rider while it appears VeloNews is testing full bikes, which can overestimate the effect of aero seatposts and seat tubes.


Hey djconnel, where do you get it in the bay area? I tried looking for it at Broader, Barnes, and Frys w no luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:59 pm 
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I've subscribed for the past few years. They sell it at Farleys in Potrero Hill in San Francisco.... but not as easy to find as you'd think. Bike shops are probably the best bet.

The rest of the world is spoiled with all of your news stands. In the US, print is dead, other than People Magazine in supermarket check-out aisles.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:10 pm 
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...or you can download for free in full pdf, here:
http://worldmags.net/sports/5230-velo-n ... -2011.html

April is not posted yet but I suspect it will be soon.
EM3


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:31 pm 
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i saw the pics on velonews.com.
seems to me the stiffness test, rigidly mounting the fork, is incorrect. the fork's lateral stiffness would resist the torsional flex, but would not in real life. in real life, the front end would be constrained by the rider cranking on the bar. so it should be rigidly held by the top of the steerer tube.
i think. i'm not an engineer, but i play one on tv.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:21 am 
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while you wait for the aero test

read

http://www.roadbike.de/test/bikes/zwoel ... 0658.9.htm


great review. the trek frameset was rated best but lost overall due to the part spec/price. bmc was most confortable but lacked headtube stiffness.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Aero road bikes will be in the April issue, which is will begin shipping to subscribers this week. It won't hit newsstands until March 1 (in theory).

We'll have full protocols written up online so you all can pick away at them to your heart's content :). We also have more data (specifically full drag numbers across -20 to 20˚ yaw) that will be available as well. We simply couldn't fit all that in print.

A quick note about the wind tunnel testing: no, we did not use a dummy, nor a real person. We did use complete bikes as sold (unlike Tour, which appears to have taken things like cables out of the equation), and also ran them all with a standard wheelset. Testing was designed and executed with the help of the good guys at the A2 wind tunnel.

We'll be doing these group bike tests approximately ever other month this year (and onwards), each with two lab tests - the Microbac torsional stiffness test and one other that is directly related to the type of bike we're testing. Sorry, can't divulge what's next, but there's a video up on the site right now that might give you a clue. :beerchug:

Hope you all enjoy, feel free to shoot over questions.

-VN tech

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:54 pm 
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:? I sure hope you put 2 water bottles in your wind tunnel tests! A road bike without bottles might as well be a track bike w/o cables or gearing.

Please post a link to your protocol once it's online. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:28 pm 
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ras11 wrote:
:? I sure hope you put 2 water bottles in your wind tunnel tests! A road bike without bottles might as well be a track bike w/o cables or gearing.

Please post a link to your protocol once it's online. Thanks!


Sure would be tough to be in bike media with tough crowds like WeightWeenies to expose your every slip.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:31 pm 
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ras11 wrote:
:? I sure hope you put 2 water bottles in your wind tunnel tests! A road bike without bottles might as well be a track bike w/o cables or gearing.

Please post a link to your protocol once it's online. Thanks!


This is the exact response why few companies have made their wind tunnel results available. Everyone has a different idea of what the only "right" way to test is:
with rider
without
with bottles
without bottles
with the same equipment
with equipment the bike comes with
etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:48 pm 
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With companies like Litespeed (and maybe Neilpryde) designing frames with bottles in mind (and even the Cervelo P4, granted not a road bike), the trend is to understand the drag with bottles in place.

With a rider model is particularly difficult, so I can understand why this would be omitted. But with bottles is an easy one, and should not have been overlooked. Just like cables, breaks, etc.. should all be left on. If price is a factor in a media review, so should the emphasas of using stock equipment... so we are not seeing high end HEDs or zipps on a $1500 SRAM Rival bike.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Your still thinking about what YOU think is the right way to use and test a bike. But there remains the issue that not every one's use is the same. YOU may feel bikes should be tested with two bottles but maybe some people only ever ride with one 24 ounce frame mounted bottle and that gets them through rides up to 50 miles and that's all they ever do. Or a person who rides with a bottle in their jersey. Or...Or...Or...

So imagine you get your way and a test is done with 2 frame mounted bottle, but then what if one company designs their bike for a seat tube bottle only, one for a down tube bottle only and one for both? Lots of guys only need 1 bottle to race with and al of a sudden they have doubts about the test protocol. So a test with both bottles may not apply to them. Or a test with a bottle in the wrong location, i.e. I race with a bottle only on the downtube. It starts demonstrating the question of when do aerodynamics matter, when racing, or all the time?

In terms of time trial bikes, it gets even more baffling. Because riders have many more options and requirements. Bottles mounted horizontally between the aerobars, front end hydration, various rear end hydration systems, aero shaped bottles, distances from 12 miles to 112 miles for the bike leg. If I saw an aero test of time trial bikes with two round bottles I would consider it inapplicable to me. I would never race, even an Ironman with two round frame mounted bottles. With my speed concept I'll most likely come up with a system for one normal bottle in between my extensions and one aero bottle on the frame for up to HIM; and an additional aero bottle for up to IM.

I'm just trying to demonstrate that it's hard to say, all testing should include ________. Because there is no standard way to use a road bike.


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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:51 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:49 pm 
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This does not need to boil down to splitting hairs or someone's personal priority list. The bikes should be tested as they are intended to be used. If the majorty of folks use 1 water bottle, then test it that way (I doubt this is statiscially true, and that must use two). My point was that no bottles = track bike.

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