HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:56 pm 
Offline
Formerly known as PezTech
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Posts: 5646
Location: Phoenix Arizona
buikpijn wrote:
In contradiction to the stated CNC label that KCNC puts on their brakes, judging the photo's i've seen so far, they appear to be moulded instead of being CNC machined as advertised. (allthough some parts will be CNC machined, but the largest part isn't)

The rough surface is either from the cheap moulding process or a sandblasting process. and to be honest, i don't believe they are sandblasted. there are several grades of moulding, and this rough surface isn't the most expensive one. Tumbling would give an different finish..

I am a bit worried about the overall quality of these brakes, considering their relative cheap mass-production method.

Their weight is awesome, but i read several posters reporting noticeable less stopping power. (even with different pads)





I think you're winging it a little and should see the product first.


There's a big dif in picture quality and making judgement that way might be off...

Image

Things look different at different angles, distance and light...

Image

But then they can also look different just by turning round things

Image


Then there's the whole understanding of different manufacturing process... and that things can be cast or forged or MIM and then machined... And or machined fully from billet and then money spent in surface blasting (and I think these are bead/ meadia, not your choice of sand) or other after finish steps, none of which are cheaper than not taking that step.

We would also need to ignore the brake material is wrought 7075 T7 Alu... That's a material more likely used AS a mold than cheaply injected into one.

Either way "cheap chinese molded" isn't something I would toss out given that there's no noted cases of part failure floating round despite long term, wide spread use. Frankly that's a phrase loaded with insinuation versus information.

Not meaning to be harsh and I already posted that I don't think the KCNC should be considered everyone's first choice, but I just think you're winging it.

_________________
charles@pezcyclingnews.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:56 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:17 pm 
Offline
in the industry

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:53 am
Posts: 140
Location: Athens, GA
Well said Pez... they look CNC from billet to me but as you said it's difficult to know if there was post machining on a forged or cast part.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:45 pm
Posts: 82
No offense taken, it wasn't meant to stir the pot or anything, please don't get me wrong. Just something i noticed. And when i hear CNC machined from chinese products and see this type of finish I simple put one and one together.

The finish on both pictures you provide are giving me a molded impression (most likely with a CNC machined opp.)

Take a look at products like Hope for example. It's easy to see these parts are CNC machined. I'm not saying molded is bad per definition. Not saying the brakes are poor in quality either, but again, CNC machined and (relative cheap) chinese products and this type of finish? that makes me wonder. That's why i say 'cheap chinese mould')

This is cnc machined, most parts from 7075T6 with a proper finish IMHO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 709
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
I understood that the rule of thumb was that cast alloy is stronger than CNC'd - This was mainly in the context of stems but assume would apply to items(?).
That not withstanding IMO my KCNC brakes are CNC manufactured (by Ken's CNC business) based on the sharpness of edges etc.- might be wrong.
From the images the new KCNC brakes look like they are not machined quite as well with visible roughness on the inside face of the cable stop lever arm.

_________________
"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months"
Oscar Wilde


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:00 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 986
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Just in case you didn't know...KCNC is based in Taiwan, not China. They have patents for various of their products and the quality is well beyond some of the more comon chinese parts you see around. JFYI...;)

_________________
www.royalbicycles.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1551
Location: London, UK
Tool marks on the surface of a component just show that the finish machining was done quickly to avoid slower feed rates that quadruple the time the part spends in the machine and thus the cost. Tune or FRM parts are finish machined yet show few tool marks because the finish machining is extremely fine, followed by polishing.

Parts with a dimpled of roughened finish have generally been finish machined to a medium standard then blasted or shot peened. Shot peening is a process where heavy, fast moving media is used to plastically deform the surface of the component. This creates a rough but hardened surface which is resistant to crack propogation.

Whether CNC maching, forging, casting or fabrication is better for one thing or another depends on a lot of factors - costs, volume, weight goals, cosmetcs, quality. Many parts use multiple operations, so it's simplistic to think that technique x is better than y. E.g. a 7900 crank uses a cold forged outer arm, to which the inner face is welded, then surfaces are machined and threads tapped, then it is finished using a variety of polishing and anodising processes. Once you understand how it's extremely impressive that Shimano bashes out thousands of them for so little cost so reliably.

I would personally not worry too much exactly how the part is made and instead concentrate on how it performs, what it looks like and how much it costs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7447
Location: Los Angeles
vmajor wrote:
I really like the TRP R920 brakes. I was just admiring them the other day. After the rim and the pads "bedded in", the stopping power is awesome. They almost felt like cable pull disc brakes...on alloy rims in dry weather.

V.


+1 I have these on two bikes. Probably the most underrated brakes available, simply because they are not marketed as the "top of the line" from TRP.
A set comes in at ~260g, which is on par (or less) than a pair of Campagnolo Record Skeleton. Design is classic, mechanism top.

Also, if you can't find the TRP R920's in stock, Cane Creek (used to?) markets them as the "SL" brakes, but with different graphics. Same exact brake though.

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:07 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:12 am
Posts: 2194
Location: Alto, NM
jmartpr wrote:
The C7 is practically the same weight as the CB1 but uses a whole new design that eliminates flex and improves braking power. C6 is the same design but uses a different type of alloy and SS hardware to drop the price but weight goes up at around 210 grams per set.


These look good to me... except for the logos. Anybody know if the KCNC bakes are easy to fully take apart and put back together?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7447
Location: Los Angeles
Rumor has it that Jason at FWB convinced KCNC to re-do their logos on the new brakes, so stay tuned.
As for taking one part - I will find out in about a month! :thumbup:

_________________
Exp001


Last edited by Frankie - B on Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
snipped the quote


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:18 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:12 am
Posts: 2194
Location: Alto, NM
What are you planning to do? I was thinking a good polishing might be nice... since the cheaper ones are 6061, I wouldn't even need to re-anodize. I'd have to remove the anodizing first (oven cleaner?) and then stick the parts in a tumbler... if I can find somebody who has one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7447
Location: Los Angeles
I'm fortunate in that the place I'm currently working for has a great working sandblaster with a mild medium in it, plus a bunch of industrial production connections which can save me a little cash here and there. The plan is to disassemble the brake, sand blast off the logo, anodize, re-assemble.

Re-assembly is the only part that has me nervous, particularly putting the spring back in as I have no experience in doing that or how to go about it, but I'm hoping I'll get some tips/help/advice when that time comes. :thumbup:

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:04 pm
Posts: 143
Quote:

+1 I have these on two bikes. Probably the most underrated brakes available, simply because they are not marketed as the "top of the line" from TRP.
A set comes in at ~260g, which is on par (or less) than a pair of Campagnolo Record Skeleton. Design is classic, mechanism top.

Also, if you can't find the TRP R920's in stock, Cane Creek (used to?) markets them as the "SL" brakes, but with different graphics. Same exact brake though.


The SL's you mentioned are the ones I mentioned earlier too.... I picked them up on Ebay last year, I love 'em. Might not have the grab of a double pivot (I have the older style single pivots), but I am easy on brakes here....

Mine came in at 240g with pads.

_________________
Tarmac SL3 S-Works 13.75lbs 6.24kg
Jamis Xenith Pro 16.1lbs 7.31kg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 4411
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
My 2010 EE brakes have shipped so I can not wait to get them on my SLC. I like the size and the way that the housing is more to the center of the brakes. Light, strong and maybe a bit more aero.

_________________
BIG DADDY B FLOW
AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5890g/12.98 lbs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:24 pm
Posts: 69
so i ended up getting the trp's and am very impressed by the quality and they came with nice lightweight holders and swissstop pads. will post more soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:28 am 


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: brakes to get
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 446
I would recommend the EE (2010 model pictured here) as the best balance between weight, modulation and stopping power. I have replaced my KCNC CB-1 (which is lighter but weak stopping power) with the EEs and they work very well.

Image

Image

_________________
Current Bikes: Storck F0.6 6kg , Storck Aero2 7.04kg
Storck Organic Light 11.1kg , Storck F0.7IS Di2 4.8kg


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Berg, cyclistcong, Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Ludo, spud, tibikeboy and 45 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Ax lightness brakes

in Road

liketoride

5

880

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:54 pm

liketoride View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. ee cycleworks brakes

in Road

Lemule

14

728

Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:42 pm

barsook77 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cantilever brakes alignment

in Road

tinchy

4

297

Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:10 pm

tinchy View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Ciamillo Gravitas Brakes

in Road

chlarsen

4

532

Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:45 pm

lannes View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. keep the zero gravity og-07 , or planet x cnc brakes

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

deermatt

19

1887

Fri May 10, 2013 2:18 am

totoboa View the latest post


It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:28 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB