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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:17 am 
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QuattroAssini wrote:

S-A, that might work for you, but to make such a blanket statement across the variation of the total population is oversimplifying.

Personally, I need to eat something at approx 2hrs if not earlier, otherwise I bonk heavily around the 3 hour mark. Interestingly enough, this was true when I was younger and in terrific racing shape, as well as now as an overweight wannabe. I really think everyone is different and each person needs to understand how to work with their own body.

I also cannot see how the OP's described method of training in his question would work for everyone, as when I bonk, I bonk very heavily. I get drowsy, lose the ability to concentrate and my body generally shuts down. For me, there is no riding past the bonk.


Well it sounds like you fit in with what I said: "You can take on fluids but you should be good without eating for at least 2 hrs."

Do you get hungry? Are you drinking enough? Do you have enough electrolytes in your bottle?
I suggest you slowly lose the weight which will be a life altering change. You will not believe how far from the shore you really are until you come back to where you were.

I know what it's like to bonk as well and it's not good.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:02 am 
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Location: Vienna, AUT
How can early morning bonking be bad for you?

I have always thought it sets the world in order to have a good bonk in the morning. Puts a smile on my face every time!

...Oh, you guys are talking about cycling. Got it now.


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:02 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:26 pm 
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Stolichnaya wrote:
How can early morning bonking be bad for you?

I have always thought it sets the world in order to have a good bonk in the morning. Puts a smile on my face every time!

...Oh, you guys are talking about cycling. Got it now.


Hillarious :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:59 pm 
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cryoplasm wrote:
This is desparation. The meaning of the term seems have been lost in this discussion.

When you really Bonk, you can not ride.

+1
There is a big difference between feeling extremely hungry and fatigued, and truly running out of all glycogen/energy in your muscles. Those who've been there know. When you really bonk it's difficult to push the bike 10mph on flat ground and it's not a question of suffering through it anymore, it's a question of are you going to just fall off the bike.

It's really bad for the body to have a true bonk during strenuous exercise. The body does all sorts of weird things, and injuries can occur when tendons start to compensate for muscles that are normally working.

That said, if you can learn to get close on a long, slow ride, then after the ride avoid sugars, the pounds drop off very quickly. The key is to know your body and not fully bonk. It's a balance of riding pretty slowly and timing the ride right. Creating the deficit in the AM means your body then has to work really hard to restore the stored glycogen for the rest of the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:53 am 
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Lance training 50 miles: talking core temp, fluid and food intake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2cbq2PY ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Measuring core temp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwQ45tzoGRI

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:12 am 
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Isn't carbohydrate need to burn fat off?


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:49 pm 
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teddysaur wrote:
Isn't carbohydrate need to burn fat off?



You might want to do some reading! :wink: You can find a LOT of information on the web about how the body processes fat, carbs, and protein. Personally, I'd recommend checking out the "Endurance Athletes Guide to Success" from Hammer Nutrition. They definitely push their products, but the science is all represented and the theories are sound. It's a big file, so print it and read it.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... knowledge/

I've always found triathletes to be more at the "cutting edge" of technology than cyclists or runners. They are more apt to try new ideas and are less rooted in the traditional mindset so prevalent in the pro peloton.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:36 am 
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Marlboro Man wrote:
Simple way of losing weight is [s]cutting out as much White flour as you can.[/s] eating less calories than you burn.


If you really want to lose weight safely and effectively, you simply need to track your dietary intake and ensure it is 15-20% below your BMR*1.2

Don't forget to remember that if you're exercising that is going to give you a bigger amount of calories you will need to eat as well. I maintain the "sedentary" factor 1.2 in my calculations since I have a desk job.

i.e. - 5'10" 183lb (83kg) BMR (estimated!) for a 34 year old is around 1870kcal * 1.2 = 2244

So 2244 kcal per day just to break even
ACSM recommends to not go below 1800kcal a day if you are a male, 1200 if you are a female
So, .8 * 2244 is slightly under that at 1795kcal/day
bump it up to the bare minimum of 1800 and you are at a deficit of 444kcal per day
444*7=3108 deficit per week almost a pound a week at one pound being 3500kcal
Factor in your exercise and you're supplementation for the exercise in terms of caloric intake and you can balance it out to a deficit of 500kcal per day which puts you at 1 pound of weight loss per week.

If you balance your diet properly you'll be able to maintain this weight loss without feeling hungry or having any health issues.
I'm currently using this method to reduce my own body weight.
One thing to note is as you go it is good to periodically recalculate the BMR (Estimated!) for your new body weight as it will be lower as you decrease in weight.

Once you hit the target weight you again recalculate and come up with a weekly maintenance kcal level to maintain the target weight. It takes some adjustment at first with measuring foods and ensuring that you don't go too far over or under each day but once you get a set menu of foods and such it gets easier.

I have a cheap digital scale I use to check weights of foods for things like cereals or fruits so i know exactly (+/- 1g) what I am eating. I then look up the nutritional data if it is not available on the packaging and keep a notebook that holds what I ate and how many calories I have eaten for the day.

In this manner I am losing consistently 1-2 pounds per week with no ill effects for the past month.
I have one more month to go before I hit my target weight.
Sounds complicated but it's pretty simple. The math is basic enough that even a 3rd grader can do the calculations.

No voodoo or crazy schemes involved. Simple input<-->output balancing.
hth


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:08 am 
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paddy wrote:
if, say, you pretty much deplete your glycogen stores, why can't you just keep going by ingesting high simple carbs in sports drinks and gels etc.?


Because the body can only process ~60 grams of carbs per hour. 60 grams is only 240 kcal, and that won't get you very far if you are close to your lactate threshold.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:33 pm 
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DanielEriksson wrote:
paddy wrote:
if, say, you pretty much deplete your glycogen stores, why can't you just keep going by ingesting high simple carbs in sports drinks and gels etc.?


Because the body can only process ~60 grams of carbs per hour. 60 grams is only 240 kcal, and that won't get you very far if you are close to your lactate threshold.


True... I think the key to remember is that cycling, like other endurance sports, is a LOSING proposition. No matter what you do, you can not replace the calories you are burning. You can only replenish a certain percentage of them. In a race, for example, you might be burning 900+ calories/hour, but your body can only take in between 200-300cal/hour. It's a negative effect no matter how you look at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:36 am 
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Posts: 306
boysa wrote:
teddysaur wrote:
Isn't carbohydrate need to burn fat off?



You might want to do some reading! :wink: You can find a LOT of information on the web about how the body processes fat, carbs, and protein. Personally, I'd recommend checking out the "Endurance Athletes Guide to Success" from Hammer Nutrition. They definitely push their products, but the science is all represented and the theories are sound. It's a big file, so print it and read it.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... knowledge/

I've always found triathletes to be more at the "cutting edge" of technology than cyclists or runners. They are more apt to try new ideas and are less rooted in the traditional mindset so prevalent in the pro peloton.



BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! That's pretty funny bro... :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:32 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:24 am 
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In my quest to get my weight down last year, I found that I wasn't eating enough food to replenish my glycogen stores on a daily basis. I got into a state of a "chronic bonk" where 1 hour into each ride I was totally spent. When you bonk, you can't even turn the pedals. I watched my power drop from 200W down to 70W over the course of about 15 minutes. I was trying as hard as possible just to maintain that 70W, but eventually I couldn't even sit on the bike anymore. Real bonking is not fun and it is not training! You can't think straight. Simple things like squeezing the brakes or watching the road become incredibly difficult. And it is not good for your body.


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:12 am 
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Bonking on purpose is really stupid. It takes the body a few days to recover from a true, full bonk.

I do, however, change my nutrition strategies on longer, slower rides, but there is a difference between riding while slightly hungry, and riding to bonk. I end up eating a little more before I ride and waiting a little bit longer to eat into the ride (about 90 minutes to 2 hours) and then eat something of higher substance, like a granola bar. The lower blood sugar spike, higher fiber, and more sustainable energy sources allow me to eat less during the total ride, and also process at a rate that is even with my riding pace. If I'm doing tempo or LT work up a 45 minute climb I use a sports drink, gel, or gummy candy since I want the energy very fast. So, if my ride combines both, I combine both. I've found that I now get hungry less often and use up less food on rides.

Also, the BMR calculations are just a guideline. I found that I only burn 500 to 600 calories an hour on most rides, even with a fair amount of tempo, so I actually take in quite a bit less than the BMR suggests. I've managed to lose weight and maintain my ride energy, however, by just centering my day's carbs around my ride time. It takes a bit of fine-tuning, but works very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:19 am 
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Posts: 45
lets talk science here.....

there are a few things that can cause the so called "bonk" that everyone is talking about. Its more likely to be dehydration or heat exhaustion than the body running out of sources of fuel. I think the only real danger is that if you truly had no glycogen left and your body is into the metabolic pathway of glycogenolysis (GNG) any hard effort might drop your blood sugar and you could die. other than that, you would just slow down until you couldn't turn over the pedals or keep your balance on the bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:19 am 


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