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 Post subject: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:07 pm 
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Have any of you done this? I am reading some things now where in training, that if you intentionally bonk, and then continue to ride, albeit at a reduced state, you train your body to use the fat that you have better.

It makes since, as long as you are not doing intervals, that at endurance zone, that just buying cutting out the added carbohydrates, that your body would have to start using the fat to continue.

I know yesterday about 3 hours into a 4 hour ride, I hit the bonk, I could still ride, but I was hungry. I stopped and grabbed me some fig newtons, and after eating them, they felt like a brick in my stomach. I should have just got me some juice or something and then drank my sports drink easy on the way home.

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 Post subject: Bonking on purpose
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:07 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:40 pm 
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I do it. For the last 3 or 4 years in the winter I will do this. Train your body to suffer in the off season.

It is probably not the best training method as I am sure some will chime in to say, but for me....it sort of gets me prepared to suffer later on in the season.

I read an interview that Jonothan Vaughters use to do this back when he was racing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:42 pm 
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Gregorio wrote:
I do it. For the last 3 or 4 years in the winter I will do this. Train your body to suffer in the off season.

It is probably not the best training method as I am sure some will chime in to say, but for me....it sort of gets me prepared to suffer later on in the season.

I read an interview that Jonothan Vaughters use to do this back when he was racing.


He does this with some of his riders now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Part of Bradley Wiggins weight loss was meant to have been early morning bonk training.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:56 pm 
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You think this is good for you? :)
Seriously? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:11 pm 
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This is desparation. The meaning of the term seems have been lost in this discussion.

When you really Bonk, you can not ride.

There are far more sensible and appropriate ways to lose fat. I also don't subscribe to "early morning bonking", or more specifically starvation training. Twigo is just stupid.
Early morning => good. Starvation => bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Unfortunately the body is not a precise machine. Although the sensation of "bonking" is marked, it does not mean the body just goes to burning fat alone, muscle will also start to be used.

Your body (and brain!) needs carbs. Staving of them of this is just dangerous, dangerous, dangerous.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:41 pm 
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A good few years ago I set out on each and every ride with the intention of blowing up. Net rest was that I went like crap, had no power, and didn't even lose any real weight.

Simple way of losing weight is cutting out as much White flour as you can.


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:43 pm 
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euan wrote:
Part of Bradley Wiggins weight loss was meant to have been early morning bonk training.


Are there any news articles or journals that describe the method used?


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:34 pm 
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There are on cyclingnews/bikeradar

I'm just stating a fact. Its not something I would do personally, I bonk enough having not really gotten the hang of when to eat on the bike.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:56 pm 
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Unless you are doing 3-7 hr rides you should not need to eat anything during the ride.
You can take on fluids but you should be good without eating for at least 2 hrs. since you would of stocked up on glycogen stores before the ride. Also if you are riding at a slow pace and if it's a 2 hr ride max do you really need to eat?

I don't think it's good to practice bonking but training the body to operate at a normal level with less fuel might help in some situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:19 am 
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i'm probably displaying a complete lack of ignorance of physiology and training here, but what is the problem with your body burning carbs/glycogen in preference to fat whilst riding?

i know that you only have much less energy in the form of glycogen in your muscles compared to the body's store of fat and that if you 'teach' your body via training to somehow prefer to burn fat/spare your glycogen you will have more glygogen left when you call on to use it for the higher end stuff but......

if, say, you pretty much deplete your glycogen stores, why can't you just keep going by ingesting high simple carbs in sports drinks and gels etc.? won't your body get all the carbs it needs through that ingestion and therefore your buring carbs in preference to fat for fuel is not really an issue save for on super long (i.e. 6-7 hr + rides) rides?

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:12 am 
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euan wrote:
Part of Bradley Wiggins weight loss was meant to have been early morning bonk training.


:lol: Depending on where you're from, this could mean something else.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:25 am 
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Quote:
Unless you are doing 3-7 hr rides you should not need to eat anything during the ride.


S-A, that might work for you, but to make such a blanket statement across the variation of the total population is oversimplifying.

Personally, I need to eat something at approx 2hrs if not earlier, otherwise I bonk heavily around the 3 hour mark. Interestingly enough, this was true when I was younger and in terrific racing shape, as well as now as an overweight wannabe. I really think everyone is different and each person needs to understand how to work with their own body.

I also cannot see how the OP's described method of training in his question would work for everyone, as when I bonk, I bonk very heavily. I get drowsy, lose the ability to concentrate and my body generally shuts down. For me, there is no riding past the bonk.

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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:25 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Bonking on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:08 am 
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paddy wrote:
i'm probably displaying a complete lack of ignorance of physiology and training here, but what is the problem with your body burning carbs/glycogen in preference to fat whilst riding?

i know that you only have much less energy in the form of glycogen in your muscles compared to the body's store of fat and that if you 'teach' your body via training to somehow prefer to burn fat/spare your glycogen you will have more glygogen left when you call on to use it for the higher end stuff but......

if, say, you pretty much deplete your glycogen stores, why can't you just keep going by ingesting high simple carbs in sports drinks and gels etc.? won't your body get all the carbs it needs through that ingestion and therefore your buring carbs in preference to fat for fuel is not really an issue save for on super long (i.e. 6-7 hr + rides) rides?


Low intensity, long intervals (longer than 45 minutes) uses up more fat stores than glycogen stores.
High intensity, short intervals (less the 20 minutes) uses up more glycogen stores than fat. The high intensity will increase the metabolic rate.
You can only ingest so many gels ans sports drinks before the body stops processing it. Therefore it is best to top off the glycogen stores a day or two before the big long ride.
Also not many of us do long rides. Most people ride 2-3 hrs max. The adaptation to long rides comes through training and fitness. Part of training is letting the body adapt to stress and striking a balance between calories taken before the ride, calories taken during the ride and calories replenished after the ride.

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