ok, so first of all im a junior u17m and have a restricted roll-out distance of 6.5m which gives me a maximum gear ratio of 81 or 39-13. ive been at races and cannot for the life of me win a bunch sprint, i can win a TT or by a breakaway and stay in a pack when most have been dropped out, but when it comes to a bunch sprint, i either go to late or go too early and get chased down, or i go at the right time and get spat out the back, only to finish by myself 10 or so metres behind the pack. My Coach suggested that i do not have the sufficient leg-speed to win.
Oppinions?
tips?
sprint tactics?
and if speed is the case (which i think it is) What sort of really intensive sprint stuff could i do within the next 2 weeks, leading up to the nsw junior country/metro champs?
Thanks
Joe
How the hell do i win a bunch sprint?
Moderator: Moderator Team
-
curlymcbird
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:15 am
- Location: Locating.......25%
i dont need some witty signature
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
-
AMclassic-fan
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:36 pm
How fast are you? What is your maximum speed on a flat sprint?
When you want to win you have to reach a speed of 60 km/h or even more. 60 km/h with 6,5m rol out means more than 150 rpm's. I think that you should train to spin faster.
When you want to win you have to reach a speed of 60 km/h or even more. 60 km/h with 6,5m rol out means more than 150 rpm's. I think that you should train to spin faster.
AMclassic-fan wrote:How fast are you? What is your maximum speed on a flat sprint?
When you want to win you have to reach a speed of 60 km/h or even more. 60 km/h with 6,5m rol out means more than 150 rpm's. I think that you should train to spin faster.
60 km/h u17?
John979
-
zakeen
- Resident Pro
- Posts: 1888
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:13 pm
- Location: Australia/Czech-Rep.
- Contact:
You have to know your strengths, know what suits you best! Read the situation. And use your strengths.
If your better at long sprints then you need to start early or even jump early.
If your explosive, you need to wait as long as you can.
Pick the best wheel!(this guy should be second!(you first!))
Find out how you sprint the best with your gears?!?! Start with the gear you want to finish in or if your better with changing gears while sprinting. Work out whats best for you.
This is a pretty hard question to answer on paper!
If your better at long sprints then you need to start early or even jump early.
If your explosive, you need to wait as long as you can.
Pick the best wheel!(this guy should be second!(you first!))
Find out how you sprint the best with your gears?!?! Start with the gear you want to finish in or if your better with changing gears while sprinting. Work out whats best for you.
This is a pretty hard question to answer on paper!
-
curlymcbird
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:15 am
- Location: Locating.......25%
i can sometimes reach 60kms/h. I think it is more about bunch positioning before the sprint, where is the best place to be?
also what sort of training should i do to improve my leg speed?
also what sort of training should i do to improve my leg speed?
i dont need some witty signature
I take it you didn't win the sprint in Sydney.
Spinting takes a very long time to perfect and is more than just being physically capable.
Position is very important, and you will need to look for the strongest rider (as Zakeen said) but also keeping the right distance from the front as the strongest rider doesn't always time his sprint right.
I got a good bunch finish 2 weeks ago by being in the right place at the right time and I could see it coming from several km out.
A combination of leg speed and power will make you faster but when you get swamped it's those riders with a high max power output or "kick" that are flying past you. Long sprints generally avoid this and you will experience this in handicaps.
As mentioned if you lack the kick but have speed; long sprints will serve you best, and you will also do well to note for future sprints which riders will try this tactic.
This site has got some experienced riders, perhaps they can share some of their experience
Spinting takes a very long time to perfect and is more than just being physically capable.
Position is very important, and you will need to look for the strongest rider (as Zakeen said) but also keeping the right distance from the front as the strongest rider doesn't always time his sprint right.
I got a good bunch finish 2 weeks ago by being in the right place at the right time and I could see it coming from several km out.
A combination of leg speed and power will make you faster but when you get swamped it's those riders with a high max power output or "kick" that are flying past you. Long sprints generally avoid this and you will experience this in handicaps.
As mentioned if you lack the kick but have speed; long sprints will serve you best, and you will also do well to note for future sprints which riders will try this tactic.
This site has got some experienced riders, perhaps they can share some of their experience
-
curlymcbird
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:15 am
- Location: Locating.......25%
^^^^^^^^
thanks, What gear? why such short periods? race sprints usually last longer than that?
thanks, What gear? why such short periods? race sprints usually last longer than that?
i dont need some witty signature
curlymcbird wrote:i can sometimes reach 60kms/h. I think it is more about bunch positioning before the sprint, where is the best place to be?
also what sort of training should i do to improve my leg speed?
Try riding fixed gear for some of your training.
-
zakeen
- Resident Pro
- Posts: 1888
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:13 pm
- Location: Australia/Czech-Rep.
- Contact:
curlymcbird wrote:^^^^^^^^
thanks, What gear? why such short periods? race sprints usually last longer than that?
because you want to train your Explosive power using your Anaerobic Alactic System(a type of energy system) which last around the 10seconds. You sprint any longer then you produce Lactic Acid. Something you dont want to do for sprint training. That way you can be able to do 5 Max efforts without producing any Lactic Acid. Make sure you have a full 3mins recovery to go again.
What gear?!?! something I can not answer, I dont know how strong you are or what level, but I would do them at 25km start speed, with a cadence of 75.
Joe's not going to be the next Robbie McEwen, he just hasn't got fast twich fibres.
While pure sprint training would be useful for his U17 races, next year he's with the U19 and his regular racing is with some very powerful sprinters.
I think it would be good to learn how to outsmart stronger sprinters. Build on your anaerobic tollerance over the last few km and learn to breakaway. It's not sprinting but it hurts the sprinters before they have the chance to kick and blow you away.
Max power work and leg speed training will also help you build a strong kick so you can get away from the bunch for a break/long sprint.
While pure sprint training would be useful for his U17 races, next year he's with the U19 and his regular racing is with some very powerful sprinters.
I think it would be good to learn how to outsmart stronger sprinters. Build on your anaerobic tollerance over the last few km and learn to breakaway. It's not sprinting but it hurts the sprinters before they have the chance to kick and blow you away.
Max power work and leg speed training will also help you build a strong kick so you can get away from the bunch for a break/long sprint.
Fitness and technique are all good. I've only speed read the thread. No one mentioned tactics. The timing associated with any attack / sprint is also important.
Look around. Are the guys in your pack about to take a drink, adjusting their helmet, adjusting gears. Are you a good climber? Attack on a hill. Any advantage you can gain over and above pure fitness and technique...
play to your strengths and take advantage of any oportunities.
tactics is covered in many books, get yourself down to the library.
Look around. Are the guys in your pack about to take a drink, adjusting their helmet, adjusting gears. Are you a good climber? Attack on a hill. Any advantage you can gain over and above pure fitness and technique...
play to your strengths and take advantage of any oportunities.
tactics is covered in many books, get yourself down to the library.
"Ride it like you've just stolen it!"
-
stumpytrunks
- Posts: 1136
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:25 am
- Location: Tas, Aus
As a second year u19 I think I can still (vaguely remember what u17 sprinting was like). In the juniors in a lot of cases the strongest sprint will also be right up there climbing tt etc. Just look at Leigh Howard this year at nationals. 2.23 pursuit, 200m national record. Also apparently decent on the road. The main thing is to be around people like him when the kick comes. You can afford to be a little bit in front but never more than two spots behind at state level as realistically the depth isnt really there. The same 3 or 4 will always place. In juniors everyone leavs it really late, rarely does anyone go before 300 to go because of the gearing. You've got two options there, hit them between say 2k and 400 metres out for the surprise effect or simply to be ready for it within the last 350 odd.
If your in front back off the person in front even if theyre good, (back off more for shit rider ie 10 metres, hardly aything for good ie 2m) and start lookingback constantly. By leaving the gap you lose the risk of running up someone while looking behind and also give yourself a much greater speed when you get next to them if you jump first. When loking behind as soon as someone gets out of the seat wind it up (have a quick look when ur winding it up just to make sure they havent foxed you), if theyre going faster at least you'll be able to get either there wheel or the persons behind. Dont be afraid to throw yourself around if you're confident enough.
Best thing you could do is start riding track if you dont already. If nothing more it'll improve your handly skills which will be usefull when you move up into u19. I think theyve got a winter series starting again soon for you guys.
I'll second what zakeen said about the 10 second sprints. My coach was the TIS head coach about 7 years ago and he has me doing these a fair bit. This month Ive only got one session on the ergo with 15 min warm up , 5x10 sec sprints with 2 min in between (might pay for more recovery as zakeen said) and ten min cool down. Have found that these seem to help with recovery when people attack during races as well. In your case I'd definitely do it on the ergo if youve got access to one simply so that you can find a good gear. want something bigger than u17 but not too much.
http://www.licoricegallery.com/features ... indoor.htm short sprint sessions in the bottom left might be of interest for your leg speed and tolerance. Brought to you by the coach that took over from my coach.
Sorry that I rambled so much but I like my sprints. If you need anything cleared up give us a yell. Main thing to remember is that if soemthings not working after a couple of goes, try something else. It might take 5 years but one day everything will just click and you'll wonder why it was so hard before.
If your in front back off the person in front even if theyre good, (back off more for shit rider ie 10 metres, hardly aything for good ie 2m) and start lookingback constantly. By leaving the gap you lose the risk of running up someone while looking behind and also give yourself a much greater speed when you get next to them if you jump first. When loking behind as soon as someone gets out of the seat wind it up (have a quick look when ur winding it up just to make sure they havent foxed you), if theyre going faster at least you'll be able to get either there wheel or the persons behind. Dont be afraid to throw yourself around if you're confident enough.
Best thing you could do is start riding track if you dont already. If nothing more it'll improve your handly skills which will be usefull when you move up into u19. I think theyve got a winter series starting again soon for you guys.
I'll second what zakeen said about the 10 second sprints. My coach was the TIS head coach about 7 years ago and he has me doing these a fair bit. This month Ive only got one session on the ergo with 15 min warm up , 5x10 sec sprints with 2 min in between (might pay for more recovery as zakeen said) and ten min cool down. Have found that these seem to help with recovery when people attack during races as well. In your case I'd definitely do it on the ergo if youve got access to one simply so that you can find a good gear. want something bigger than u17 but not too much.
http://www.licoricegallery.com/features ... indoor.htm short sprint sessions in the bottom left might be of interest for your leg speed and tolerance. Brought to you by the coach that took over from my coach.
Sorry that I rambled so much but I like my sprints. If you need anything cleared up give us a yell. Main thing to remember is that if soemthings not working after a couple of goes, try something else. It might take 5 years but one day everything will just click and you'll wonder why it was so hard before.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
Curly, someone who observed that sprint said you should increase your leg speed.
Training in low gears at high speed can acheive this, though I'm not sure fixed gears make any difference other than the inability to use a bigger gear.
You've got 3 days before your next race, try doing a ride with a high tempo using a low gear. You need to train both your muscles and your nervous system to operate faster.
I get the impression you're lacking leg speed and thus max speed in the gear restricted sprints.
Training in low gears at high speed can acheive this, though I'm not sure fixed gears make any difference other than the inability to use a bigger gear.
You've got 3 days before your next race, try doing a ride with a high tempo using a low gear. You need to train both your muscles and your nervous system to operate faster.
I get the impression you're lacking leg speed and thus max speed in the gear restricted sprints.
