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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:29 pm 
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rruff wrote:
STARNUT wrote:
My point was/is....... I think a significant amount of the cost of a PM is (obviously) not technology, materials, or engineering.............. it's labor. I dare someone to tell me it's the cost of the programing and software :evil:.


Do it!

It think the biggest issue is that the market is small... just not enough potential sales to amortize the costs over. You might ask why any of these bike parts are so expensive. You can buy a fully functional bike at Walmart for less than a set of derailleur pulleys. Or look at tires... I pay as much for bicycle tires that last 2k miles (or less) as I do for car tires that last 50k miles.


Chicken or the egg --- market is small because the prices are ridiculous therefore the market is small.... create the demand at a price that can be met, and the market will grow.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:04 pm 
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At J-nice.............

I'm a dick. Sorry homie............... I mistook your tone and went off on a tare :oops: .


*crawls under desk*

Sorry


Starnut

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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:04 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:23 pm 
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I'm holding out for this one:

http://www.microsporttech.com/

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:11 pm 
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kytyree wrote:
I'm holding out for this one:

http://www.microsporttech.com/

:)


They have given up on it , mind you it was a great idea


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Yeah, I was kidding but I had been keeping up with it prior to them throwing in the towel.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:00 pm 
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If you fill out the survey at brim, one of the main questions is "What types of pedals and cleats do you use?" and do you own a Garmin 705. Only a wild stab in the dark with a very blunt sword, but could that suggest a system combined into the cleat and/or shoe with simply Ant+Sport support?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:31 pm 
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santabarbara wrote:
Chicken or the egg --- market is small because the prices are ridiculous therefore the market is small.... create the demand at a price that can be met, and the market will grow.

Totally agree. Measuring and storing power data is something even the casual yet competitive club cyclist would look into if the price is right.
STARNUT wrote:
At J-nice.............

I'm a dick. Sorry homie............... I mistook your tone and went off on a tare :oops: .

*crawls under desk*
Sorry


No problem. For the record I was expressing genuine interest in your viewpoints, not sarcasm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:56 am 
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J-Nice wrote:
Totally agree. Measuring and storing power data is something even the casual yet competitive club cyclist would look into if the price is right.


Sure... but you might be surprised at how few people are in that category compared to the world population... ie people who would spend an extra $1000 to have a PM. Likely sales of a thousand or less per year makes the development costs a big chunk of the gross income.

Where I live there are 40-50 club riders, and I'm the only one who has a PM of any sort... and that is an iBike that cost me $350.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:34 am 
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If they priced them at the Garmin 705 level, they'd sell a truck load.

Just wait till Shimano/Sram/Cateye etc get their act together.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:20 am 
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You can get a Polar CS600 power on Ebay for < $500. It's not SRM accurate but it's good enough for recreational cyclists. I like mine just fine for what I paid, about $350.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:52 am 
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rruff wrote:
Sure... but you might be surprised at how few people are in that category compared to the world population... ie people who would spend an extra $1000 to have a PM. Likely sales of a thousand or less per year makes the development costs a big chunk of the gross income.

You can pretty much say that about anything cycling-related.

This is a niche sport. The manufacturers sell high-end goods to the very few that can afford them. The prices reflect that preference.

But automatically assuming that there will be no market for an item if sold at a lower cost than others seems strange.

How is it possible that there is a market for SRM power meters, but not for something quite a bit less expensive that would do the same thing-measure power output?

I could only assume that you'd sell more if the prices were better. And if you include Starnuts' reply that the technology involved in these power meters isn't any more complicated than a bathroom scale, it seems strange that a manufacturer hasn't taken the idea of mass-production and ran with it.

Cell phones and ipods are relatively inexpensive for what they do. They are massed produced and almost everyone has at least one if not both.

The very same principal would apply to even our little niche sport. We have, over the last 10-15 or more years, resigned ourselves into thinking the prices we pay for these niche goods are reflective of some economic reality that is beyond the control of the manufacturer.

But as much of the manufacturing has gone to Asia, where materials and labor are astronomical less expensive, the prices for these same goods have gone through the roof. There is a direct correlation here.

Once you are told that a polyester team jersey is worth $250 dollars because of the technology behind it, you will believe it. Even though it is made by the cheapest labor and the most inexpensive materials the manufacturer can find on the face of the Earth.

It is not up to me to set prices for manufacturers or argue with anyone over the validity of their collective price gauging.

But we seem to be in a new world. It will be down to those who have the business sense to cash in on what is possible in these new and difficult times and create opportunities.

The cycling world will no doubt be hit just as hard as any expensive hobby by the global economic crisis. It is only a matter of time. I believe the person or persons who take the bull by the horns to do something along the lines of what we've been discussing will succeed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:10 am 
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J-Nice wrote:
Cell phones and ipods are relatively inexpensive for what they do. They are massed produced and almost everyone has at least one if not both.


Precisely... the market for these things is in the hundreds of millions. How many people are "serious" recreational cyclists? You can also get a viable PM for $350... is that too high? How cheap does it need to get?

If you think there is an untapped market, then please give it a shot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:52 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:44 pm
Posts: 44
J-Nice wrote:
rruff wrote:
[b]
And if you include Starnuts' reply that the technology involved in these power meters isn't any more complicated than a bathroom scale, it seems strange that a manufacturer hasn't taken the idea of mass-production and ran with it.

Cell phones and ipods are relatively inexpensive for what they do. They are massed produced and almost everyone has at least one if not both.


Food for thought: When comparing powermeters to bathroom scales, cell phones and ipods remember that none of those products have to broadcast a reliable signal while rotating and remaining waterproof. The spinning and moisture does tend to complicate things a bit when designing powermeters.

The powermeters that don't rotate while measuring power (iBike, Polar) are cheaper than Quarq, SRM or Powertap, but aren't necessarily always considered as accurate.

Mieke
Quarq Technology


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 Post subject: Re: Power
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:45 pm 
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Location: Canada
...not to mention that they don't actually measure power...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Location: UK
Really get my wick up when people say that about the Polar devices. FFS

Xav


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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:24 pm 


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