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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:20 am 
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Super_fast wrote:
Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
So apart from the wheels issue that is on the Cervelo website, there are no other known issues.

There might be an issue with Campag chainsets, however, there might not!

Regarding the wheels issue, if you're buying the S3 you want a light, aero bike so aero wheels are a must. Backward compatibility might not be a huge issue. If it is an issue, just buy one of the others or a lighter SLC-SL.


Your conclusion in the first sentence is wrong, Cervelo doesn't announce more issues (jet).

For every racer the wheelset compatibility problem is a real problem, you are going to sent the mechanic back to get another wheel because it won't fit your bike? :lol: Besides that you don't want to train always on carbon fibre wheels, especially when it's wet. It would be nice when you just could install some Campa Eurus wheels for example.


My first comment is only as wrong as the following comment. There is nothing wrong with any major manufacturers frames until any known problems are found out and circulated. Being a racer myself, I can't see the wheels issue being a big problem. Thanks for perpetuating the rumour that there are untold problems though........


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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:20 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:47 am 
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The problem is chainring bolts of Campy UT 53/39 touching the frame.

On some it will work, but if you crash yours and the new one doesn't fit you're screwed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
Being a racer myself, I can't see the wheels issue being a big problem. Thanks for perpetuating the rumour that there are untold problems though........


I don't see any rumors. I see an email from Cervelo that says if you buy an S3, you roll the dice on whether or not it will fit some Campy groups. Some pic on the internet of a campy-equipped S3 doesn't address this.

What I don't see is a statement from Cervelo offering to replace a frame that falls out of spec, only "try before you buy".

Seriously, only cyclists form a consumer group who get subjected to this and still put up with it, or even defend it.

Even if one is so enamored with this frame that they are willing to risk the purchase, don't count on trying to resell it a year from now.

C'mon..Cervelo...just fix the damned molds already.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
Super_fast wrote:
Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
So apart from the wheels issue that is on the Cervelo website, there are no other known issues.

There might be an issue with Campag chainsets, however, there might not!

Regarding the wheels issue, if you're buying the S3 you want a light, aero bike so aero wheels are a must. Backward compatibility might not be a huge issue. If it is an issue, just buy one of the others or a lighter SLC-SL.


Your conclusion in the first sentence is wrong, Cervelo doesn't announce more issues (jet).

For every racer the wheelset compatibility problem is a real problem, you are going to sent the mechanic back to get another wheel because it won't fit your bike? :lol: Besides that you don't want to train always on carbon fibre wheels, especially when it's wet. It would be nice when you just could install some Campa Eurus wheels for example.


My first comment is only as wrong as the following comment. There is nothing wrong with any major manufacturers frames until any known problems are found out and circulated. Being a racer myself, I can't see the wheels issue being a big problem. Thanks for perpetuating the rumour that there are untold problems though........

Cervelo in writing has stated that there are issues with Campy Gruppos, Campy Wheels, and other wheels. That is good enough for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
The Dimpler wrote:
Rich-Ti wrote:
If this were Motobecane or Scattante or even Trek, we'd all be arrogantly laughing.


(*may not be compatible with some Cervelo models)



well put ... Cervelo is a brand that WWs have a huge amount of goodwill towards and not without reason. But they look to be losing their way a bit. They first pi55ed me off replacing the black lighter R3 with a heavier uglier white one and jacking up the prices. This latest thing is more serious though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:54 pm 
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Manatee wrote:
Carbon_Cowboy wrote:
Docfink's on the Cervelo forum...I guess it only proves it can be installed

... as long as you don't try to turn the crank more than 30 degrees. :wink:


Come on guys, this is part of the design! I cant believe no one has seen this! If you can only turn the cranks for the front half of the stroke your aero drag will be decreased much more than any petty advances to the frame! I bet you can ride 3 gears lower and save 50 watts from this design feature alone! :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Location: Canada
Something tells me they should've worded it differently...

Quote:
Tolerances on the Campy Super Record Groupo are very tight. Some frames do not have issues and some do.


Tolerances on the frames are very tight. Some groups do not have issues and some do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Quote:
Tolerances on the Campy Super Record Groupo are very tight. Some frames do not have issues and some do. The best thing to do is have the shop you purchase your S3 from test the frame before they sell it to you. In doing that you will ensure you components will fit before you pay for the bike.


Given the context, do you really believe that the email from Cervelo can be construed simply as an error in wording? :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:01 pm 
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amos wrote:
Tolerances on the frames are very tight. Some groups do not have issues and some do.


That's not what they mean at all, that implies a design error.

What they mean is that when the frames come out of the mold, there is variance in some measurement and alignments. The dimensions of the S3 are very tight to the parts by design, and the variance during production means some frames will fit the parts, others will not.

You can't correct CF frames for alignment after molding or gluing the way you can a metal frame on a jig, and sometimes they come out of the mold out of spec. Other companies discard these frames, or design frames with more liberal tolerance ranges.

It's ok if Cervelo wants to sell a tight tolerance aero frame and indicates that some wheels won't work. But, they need to not ship frames that stray from a certain spec. The fact that some frames are shipped that may not fit campy cranks indicates a rather loose quality control. Not what one should expect at this price point, otherwise, what defines a $4500 frame?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:38 pm 
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Location: London, UK
I suppose the variability is down to how much right hand BB shell is removed facing it up.
But as has been said, anything that tight will likely rub under pressure anyway, stiff as the R3 and UT chainsets are. And it certainly sounds like you won't be changing inner rings in situ, and definitely not fitting larger inner rings.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Posts: 169
The Dimpler wrote:
amos wrote:
Tolerances on the frames are very tight. Some groups do not have issues and some do.


That's not what they mean at all, that implies a design error.

What they mean is that when the frames come out of the mold, there is variance in some measurement and alignments. The dimensions of the S3 are very tight to the parts by design, and the variance during production means some frames will fit the parts, others will not.

You can't correct CF frames for alignment after molding or gluing the way you can a metal frame on a jig, and sometimes they come out of the mold out of spec. Other companies discard these frames, or design frames with more liberal tolerance ranges.

It's ok if Cervelo wants to sell a tight tolerance aero frame and indicates that some wheels won't work. But, they need to not ship frames that stray from a certain spec. The fact that some frames are shipped that may not fit campy cranks indicates a rather loose quality control. Not what one should expect at this price point, otherwise, what defines a $4500 frame?


If that's the case why would anyone buy a moulded frame :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:30 pm 
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Location: Belgium
I have here an S3 size 56 with campy chorus 11v on it, absolut no issues there, everything works perfectly 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:15 am 
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Location: london
could we have some pics of the troubled area please? to see how tight the clearance is
tikka

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:06 am 
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currieinahurry wrote:
could we have some pics of the troubled area please? to see how tight the clearance is
tikka

This shows you how massive the chainstays are on the S3.
http://www.daviswheelworks.com/images/b ... detail.pdf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:50 am 
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Location: Belgium
currieinahurry wrote:
could we have some pics of the troubled area please? to see how tight the clearance is
tikka


I'll try to take some tomorrow, for the moment there are easton vista wheels in it (training) and there is more than enough clearance between the wheel/cogs and the chainstays.
Also between the UT crankbolts and the chainstays (about 2/3mm), but I can believe that it gets more difficult with smaller sizes (51)

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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:50 am 


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