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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:41 pm 
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Whoa! That is a prickly question that has yet to be independently verified, either way.

What I can say is this. When these wheels first came to light in the 97 Tour, Cyclesport had a picture of the high-zoot wheels in their wrapup issue. The wheels had an Ada decal on the rim but the wheels had the flat black/gold spokes that LW have now in their construction. The spokes were not the round braided kevlar spokes that are used in the construction of the current Ada wheels.

Take from that what you will.


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 Post subject: Re: Who came first
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:36 am 
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jersievers wrote:
Who came first ADA (cee beers) or Lightweight (Dierl and Obermayer) because someone is copying. ADA site says Cee Beers never got a patent. ADA says they started in 1988, Lightweight in mid 1990's.

Did dierl and obermayer sneak into the ADA shop and prefect Cee's non-patented design.


Here is what Mr. Obermayer says about this topic:

" The first spoke wheels built by us had low profile rims and „press-formed“ spokes - not yet spokes in „aerofoil form“. For a short time these were named „DO 2000“. Then the company Heylight helped us with the distribution of these wheels and we renamed them to „Heylight“. Approximately 1994/95 we got to know Mr. Cees Beers and he wanted to distribute our wheels worldwide. Mr. Beers was 1x in our workshop and he called on us to shape the rim profile more aerodynamic. As therefor new molds were necessary, we asked for financial support. Then we received 850 Netherlands Guilders and invested them into new molds. The outcome of this were the first spoke wheels with aero rims in 1995 here in Munich."

[...]

"First: We didn't know at all in 1997, that Ullrich or Riis were actually riding our wheels. A friend of mine was at the TdF and saw both riding with our wheels. He then phoned me, that I should turn on the TV. Then I saw for the first time, that our wheels were ridden on the TdF. I have a big picture of Ullrich from this Tour and it clearly shows, that firstly the hub had our traditional grey hub shells and secondly our aero spokes. (to the present day ADA has still round spokes).
Also they couldn't have been ADA wheels, because Mr. Beers has not yet made wheels at that time. "

[...]

" Maybe one more thing: Mr. Beers let himself photograph with a disc wheel of us in the american „News“. But until today Mr. Beers has no disc wheels in his product program. We've never taken any legal action against Mr. Beers, because we were always occupied with work for several months and we never found it necessary to waste our valuable time with quibbling. You have to work hard for success, envy do you get as present."

Taken from: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=57

I have one of the very first low profile Lightweights that Mr. Obermayer mentioned above. They had a ~20 mm rim and 24 spokes (flat pressed, not quite like the ones today.)
I can post a pic if you like.

When 2 people say opposite things - everybody should decide for himself whom to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Who came first
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:36 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:26 am 
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I think my post confirms the above. For me the 'intellectual property' is with Dierl & Obermayer.


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 Post subject: Re: Who came first
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:28 am 
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CarbonSports wrote:
I have one of the very first low profile Lightweights that Mr. Obermayer mentioned above. They had a ~20 mm rim and 24 spokes (flat pressed, not quite like the ones today.)
I can post a pic if you like.


:D Like to see the pics, very interesting!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:34 am 
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I would also very much like to see one single picture of an ADA wheel, built within 1988-1997. Have never seen one.

Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Who came first
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:44 am 
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asphaltdude wrote:
:D Like to see the pics, very interesting!


My Digicam is currently not working. So I can only show you low-quality pics, taken with my mobile phone., sorry:

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:17 am 
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Location: Denmark
What a nice looking wheel (the old "ligtweight")
From pure interest: What is the weight of this early version.

And a littel more history:

If im not wrong Bjarne Riis did actually use a pair of lightweights in '96 for his Tour win.
And the earkliest pair i know off from ADA (Cees) is used by Rolf soerensen in his Rabobank days. Rumor has it that Rolf's WC winning Colnago C40 from 97(flandern) weighed in at only 6,2kg. The Ada wheelset from that bike should be the same pair that tyler crashed on later, mainly because it had been modified into a 900g wheelset by removing some of the pawls inside.
At the Worlds in cyclocross in 97 in denmark, Henk Djernis had 2(or 3) sets of ADA wheels, specificly made for cyclocross(wider rim, for better connection between tubular and rim.)
As i know of Djernis had been put in contact with Cees through Rolf Soerensen.

So much for Danish cycle history.

BRG
8)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:37 am 
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sub10 wrote:
What a nice looking wheel (the old "ligtweight")
From pure interest: What is the weight of this early version.


This one I have here is 503 grams.

sub10 wrote:
mainly because it had been modified into a 900g wheelset by removing some of the pawls inside.


You will only save very few grams by removing some pawls and this will not turn a 1.100 or 1.200 gram wheelset into a 900 g set.

I fact I just do not believe that there is any ADA wheelset out there with sub 900 grams. But because it was often claimed that there are wheels of this kind even lighter than 900 grams, there MUST be some around and I might be wrong.

I personally would like to own one of these mysterious wheelsets and therefore I have an offer for all of you out there:

The person that sends me an ADA wheelset (used) with a maximum weight of 900,00 grams will get a new Lightweight Obermayer wheelset incl. brakepads and tubulars in return. In addition we will pay 10 Euro for every gram that this wheelset is lighter than the wheels we will deliver in return.

Now go out and put your ADA´s on a scale 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:31 pm 
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CarbonSports wrote:
The person that sends me an ADA wheelset (used) with a maximum weight of 900,00 grams will get a new Lightweight Obermayer wheelset incl. brakepads and tubulars in return. In addition we will pay 10 Euro for every gram that this wheelset is lighter than the wheels we will deliver in return.

Now go out and put your ADA´s on a scale 8)

Hahahah, classic. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:36 pm 
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if that's not putting your money where your mouth is, I don't know what is!!!!

:shock:


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 Post subject: I love this site.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:31 pm 
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Did I ever tell you guys, I love this site.

Sounds like Mr. Beers had his hands in the LW bucket.

Anyone have any information about the logo stuff. Seems to me like a big old logo would bike it easier to tell whos are whos, then spoke profile.

From a marketing standpoint, having a competitor with a product so close to yours visually is not good. A little adjustment to the aestethic of a product goes a long way in distinguising yourself. I am not sure how that would be done without adding weight, but you get the idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:51 pm 
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CarbonSports wrote:

I personally would like to own one of these mysterious wheelsets and therefore I have an offer for all of you out there:

The person that sends me an ADA wheelset (used) with a maximum weight of 900,00 grams will get a new Lightweight Obermayer wheelset incl. brakepads and tubulars in return. In addition we will pay 10 Euro for every gram that this wheelset is lighter than the wheels we will deliver in return.

Now go out and put your ADA´s on a scale 8)


WOW a very good exchange. you send a replica wheel (ADA), and get the original wheel (A better LW Obermayer) that was the mold for the replica :lol:

of course, provided that you can find a 900g ADA :roll:

i think we should change the thread to "ADA when did you come to be and how much did you weigh then?" :idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:57 pm 
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spytech wrote:
CarbonSports wrote:

I personally would like to own one of these mysterious wheelsets and therefore I have an offer for all of you out there:

The person that sends me an ADA wheelset (used) with a maximum weight of 900,00 grams will get a new Lightweight Obermayer wheelset incl. brakepads and tubulars in return. In addition we will pay 10 Euro for every gram that this wheelset is lighter than the wheels we will deliver in return.

Now go out and put your ADA´s on a scale 8)


WOW a very good exchange. you send a replica wheel (ADA), and get the original wheel (A better LW Obermayer) that was the mold for the replica :lol:

of course, provided that you can find a 900g ADA :roll:

Maybe Cees Beers takes the offer :-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:02 pm 
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if he did it would be anonymously (john doe) if he did, it would be funny thing (if we knew), but he would still come out winning. eg. he would get a better wheelset.


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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:02 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:06 pm 
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spytech wrote:
if he did it would be anonymously (john doe), but if he did it would be funny thing (if we knew), but he would still come out winning. eg. he would get a better wheelset.

Come to think of it, for Beers it is a win-win situation:

- he can prove he can build a 900g wheelset
- he can make carbonsports look silly
- he gets his competitors newest for free to take a good look at

:twisted:

Martin

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