Another blast from Greg LeMond against Armstrong. It seems every year Greg needs to come up with something that denigrates Armstrong. I would never defend doping, but what is happening here (as in some of USA track and field trials) is the manipulation of perception, the power of insinuation, but no presentation of real evidence. It's all so hypocritical...to state "I was a big supporter of Lance the first year that he won the Tour," LeMond was quoted as saying. "But with all these stories it's difficult to stay a supporter." What about saying that it might be important that "all these stories" either show proof positive or not.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2577428
LeMond sour grapes?
Moderator: robbosmans
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Racing Aardvark
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:44 am
- Location: Boulder, CO
No offense, but WHY does Lemond need to support Armstrong? Lance didn't exactly support Greg. Regardless, sport is filled with plenty of athletes who do not like each other.
BTW, Greg has made plenty of comments about drugs in cycling, but I know of at least one publication and interviewer who actually edited the interview so his comments would be removed. Why? They were afraid of losing advertising dollars....
edited to add: as much as I am not a Lance fan (per se), THIS is ridiculous and I agree with his outrage... http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=268
BTW, Greg has made plenty of comments about drugs in cycling, but I know of at least one publication and interviewer who actually edited the interview so his comments would be removed. Why? They were afraid of losing advertising dollars....
edited to add: as much as I am not a Lance fan (per se), THIS is ridiculous and I agree with his outrage... http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=268
I'm not saying LeMond (or anyone) HAS to support Armstrong (or anyone). I don't care who supports who. Not supporting is different than accusing or insinuating, though.
What I'm saying is that the whole doping issue is very hypocritical, the whole concept of innocent until proven guilty" seems reversed: now the method seems to be to allege that someone may be using enhancement, and then let the press, etc. go from there.
It's pretty clear some athletes use substances; what's not clear is the basis from which judgment is passed on them. In some cases (often) it seems to be smearing or guilt by association.
I'm not a Lance supporter per se, either, but I do think either proof must be brought to bear on those specifically accused or the sport (and the participants, "clean" or not) just finds itself in a morass of insinuation, suspicion, rumor, slander...as in the France3 piece you quoted above.
What I'm saying is that the whole doping issue is very hypocritical, the whole concept of innocent until proven guilty" seems reversed: now the method seems to be to allege that someone may be using enhancement, and then let the press, etc. go from there.
It's pretty clear some athletes use substances; what's not clear is the basis from which judgment is passed on them. In some cases (often) it seems to be smearing or guilt by association.
I'm not a Lance supporter per se, either, but I do think either proof must be brought to bear on those specifically accused or the sport (and the participants, "clean" or not) just finds itself in a morass of insinuation, suspicion, rumor, slander...as in the France3 piece you quoted above.
"Gimondi è un eroe umano, che viene sconfitto ma che continua la sua corsa fino a tornare a vincere." - Enrico Ruggeri
I used to use a ton of bad doping drugs until one day they made me do a drug test at a race...I still have no clue why they singled me out...
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I want your input.
Lemond said basically the same thing a couple years ago after it was reported he'd consulted with a Dr. Ferarri. Here's a guy that knows no more then you or I hear being reported and he comes out and says this. He has zero class .. and the fact that he said this to a French newspaper that has been trying to dig up a doping scandal for years shows that for LeMond, it's probably personal.
AFAIK he still holds the record for fastest TDF TT when he won by 8 secs. Maybe he was doping. The scrutiny of the peloton back then was nothing of what it is today.
AFAIK he still holds the record for fastest TDF TT when he won by 8 secs. Maybe he was doping. The scrutiny of the peloton back then was nothing of what it is today.
I agree: I think he's somewhat vindictive and pissed that LA would have the "greatest American cyclist ever" title, and he's fine just fueling the fire.
When he says: "But with all these stories it's difficult to stay a supporter." what is he really saying, that he thinks the "stories" are more true than the performance? That he has no respect for the fact that perhaps Armstrong is an incredible and determined worker? Hey, if LA is on stuff, he should be banned, but I don't see LeMond quoting actual medical reports on Armstrong, but rather just adding to more gossip.
As someone said on another thread: "im telling you from direct heresay." I love that quote....
When he says: "But with all these stories it's difficult to stay a supporter." what is he really saying, that he thinks the "stories" are more true than the performance? That he has no respect for the fact that perhaps Armstrong is an incredible and determined worker? Hey, if LA is on stuff, he should be banned, but I don't see LeMond quoting actual medical reports on Armstrong, but rather just adding to more gossip.
As someone said on another thread: "im telling you from direct heresay." I love that quote....
"Gimondi è un eroe umano, che viene sconfitto ma che continua la sua corsa fino a tornare a vincere." - Enrico Ruggeri
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secularist
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:00 am
- Location: MD/VA
I'm a cycling fan...not a just a Lance fan...and it pisses me off when LeMond spouts off this unsubstantiated drivel EVERY damn year. it's SO predictable, as it's during the tour or right before it...every time. He should really try and not be so transparent with his vindictiveness and jealosy. If he knows something for sure...say it, be a man! otherwise, shut your damn cake-hole!
I always thought LeMond was a whiner back in the 80's and that's why Andy Hampsten was my favorite. At least my instincts were correct. Crappy part is now I have to look at my wife's LeMond everyday...
How to ruin your own cycling legacy by Greg LeMond...coming to a bookstore near you!!!
I always thought LeMond was a whiner back in the 80's and that's why Andy Hampsten was my favorite. At least my instincts were correct. Crappy part is now I have to look at my wife's LeMond everyday...
How to ruin your own cycling legacy by Greg LeMond...coming to a bookstore near you!!!
I miss my IndyFab Crown Jewel...
http://www.greglemond.com/site/contactus.shtml
Mailbox Full! LOL LOL
Lemondbikes.com's email form is also not working.
I think there's a bunch of people pissed about it. What ticks me off about this is Lemond did so much for american cycling, .. and now here's armstrong carrying the torch, so to speak, bringing recognition to the US and bringing recognition of the sport of cycling to americans (we're still way behind europe and probably the rest of the world). He's making himself look like a putz.
Mailbox Full! LOL LOL
Lemondbikes.com's email form is also not working.
I think there's a bunch of people pissed about it. What ticks me off about this is Lemond did so much for american cycling, .. and now here's armstrong carrying the torch, so to speak, bringing recognition to the US and bringing recognition of the sport of cycling to americans (we're still way behind europe and probably the rest of the world). He's making himself look like a putz.
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secularist
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:00 am
- Location: MD/VA
[quote="bobalou"]http://www.greglemond.com/site/contactus.shtml
Mailbox Full! LOL LOL
gotta hang on to this link...gonna use that later...AGAIN and AGAIN and...
Mailbox Full! LOL LOL
gotta hang on to this link...gonna use that later...AGAIN and AGAIN and...
I miss my IndyFab Crown Jewel...
My email went through:
"Why does (Mr.?) LeMond bring his own achievements down by saying to a French newspaper that "I was a big supporter of Lance the first year that he won the Tour," LeMond was quoted as saying. "But with all these stories it's difficult to stay a supporter."
What is this statement about, (Mr.?) LeMond? What does this say about (Mr.?) LeMond, that in the middle of the Tour he feels the need to make an insinuation like that, rather than state to the reporter that he feels that concrete evidence of allegations (and not just "stories") should be provided, certainly in any public forum; that if direct evidence is provided he would be extremely disappointed in Lance Armstrong; and, if not or until then, he feels that the subject should be dismissed.
Evidence? None. Jealousy? Plenty of it. Classless move? Absolutely. Fueling the fire of manipulative journalism? Just like (Mr.?) LeMond. Man enough to back this statement? Nope. Dope. Too bad for (Mr.?) LeMond."
"Why does (Mr.?) LeMond bring his own achievements down by saying to a French newspaper that "I was a big supporter of Lance the first year that he won the Tour," LeMond was quoted as saying. "But with all these stories it's difficult to stay a supporter."
What is this statement about, (Mr.?) LeMond? What does this say about (Mr.?) LeMond, that in the middle of the Tour he feels the need to make an insinuation like that, rather than state to the reporter that he feels that concrete evidence of allegations (and not just "stories") should be provided, certainly in any public forum; that if direct evidence is provided he would be extremely disappointed in Lance Armstrong; and, if not or until then, he feels that the subject should be dismissed.
Evidence? None. Jealousy? Plenty of it. Classless move? Absolutely. Fueling the fire of manipulative journalism? Just like (Mr.?) LeMond. Man enough to back this statement? Nope. Dope. Too bad for (Mr.?) LeMond."
"Gimondi è un eroe umano, che viene sconfitto ma che continua la sua corsa fino a tornare a vincere." - Enrico Ruggeri
You guys are worse than the velonews mailbag. What would be an acceptable reason to speculate that Lance is doping? What if he can spin a 55x12 for an hour? What if he was dieing of cancer in ’96-’97, racing professionally again in ’98, and winning the Tour in ’99? What if his old masseuse (who had the trust of the team) said she saw him do it?
LeMond may not know everything about Lance, but he does know stresses of the race pretty well, and I would say he is very qualified to talk about what it takes to be at the level that Lance is at. He also knows a thing or two about coming back from serious injury and getting back to that level. Beloki couldn’t even come back from a broken leg this year!
Why shoot the messenger who tells you something you should already suspect?
What would be an acceptable reason to speculate that Lance is doping? What if he can spin a 55x12 for an hour? What if he was dieing of cancer in ’96-’97, racing professionally again in ’98, and winning the Tour in ’99? What if his old masseuse (who had the trust of the team) said she saw him do it?
LeMond may not know everything about Lance, but he does know stresses of the race pretty well, and I would say he is very qualified to talk about what it takes to be at the level that Lance is at. He also knows a thing or two about coming back from serious injury and getting back to that level. Beloki couldn’t even come back from a broken leg this year!
Why shoot the messenger who tells you something you should already suspect?
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asphaltdude
- Posts: 1231
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- Location: Holland
- Contact:
Whow! That's a pretty damn nice garage door!
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Lol, he looks like the Michelin-guy
