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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:31 pm 
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Florian wrote:
An asterisk is a symbolized star: *


See there you go, I can't even spell it correctly :? :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:32 pm 
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Thanks.

@nikh: I think "just kidding" is better than "joking" :wink:


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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:32 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:45 pm 
Come on... I like saving weight and am working hard to get a Giant in at 4.6kg but a few things about these bikes. Race ready???? The Mura bike will puncture within 10 minutes and you would have to be a midget to ride it. Have a close look at the frame it is very very small. That is why you can use a handlear that weighs 128gr. Because the rider would probably be 120lbs.

As for Frisoni's bike, he will probably only puncture after an hour but those chainrings are dangerous. They come with a warning to not change gears hard (not sure of exact words) so I still have not found the setting on my ergo's for soft change. And using brake leavers and downtube shifters is cheating really. Who uses that nowdays, we all know what it is like to dirty a "dirty"shift while out the saddle. The lever shifter combo comes in at 285gr you can use proper tuned ergo's that will come in at 305gr. And he better not try and brake to much, those ZIPP silica brake surfaces will have his Corima pads in about 100miles.

Anyway heard a rumour that the guy with the lightest nikes is working on one that would come in between 3.6 - 3.7kg. Ad the frame is going to be one of +-600gr jobie, that for the right rider would be good for about 5 races. If you have been eating to many burgers in the of season......

Thes bikes are just eye candy and to even contemplate racing on them in their current form would be silly. Unless it is some smooth surface hillclimb. Good job though on both of them. But race readdy NO!!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:09 pm 
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Francois_viviers@hotmail. wrote:
The Mura bike will puncture within 10 minutes...

I guess that's why he chose a heavier tyre on the rear.
Anyway it all depends on the surface:
the front tyre is really only constructed for indoor track racing or ultraclean pavement.

Quote:
As for Frisoni's bike, he will probably only puncture after an hour but those chainrings are dangerous. They come with a warning to not change gears hard (not sure of exact words) so I still have not found the setting on my ergo's for soft change.

From what I've heard the chainrings can be squeezed towards each other by hand with ease. :?

Quote:
And using brake leavers and downtube shifters is cheating really. Who uses that nowdays...

Uhm, the 5x in a row TDF winner? :D

Quote:
And he better not try and brake to much, those ZIPP silica brake surfaces will have his Corima pads in about 100miles.

Well, that's a problem of any carbon rim.
Either they eat up the brake pads (ZIPP) or the brake pads eat up the expensive rim (most other carbon rims).
I'd prefer the first one, if I'd ride carbon rims. (I don't do)

Quote:
Thes bikes are just eye candy and to even contemplate racing on them in their current form would be silly. Unless it is some smooth surface hillclimb. Good job though on both of them. But race readdy NO!!!!!

I think no one here would ever doubt this.
I mean you wouldn't be able to start at a race with the current UCI rules.
They just show what's possible nowadays.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:19 pm 
Yep take your point on the Downtube shifters, but only for front rings. Which is an acceptable trade-off. Especially if you are running Shimano.

As for carbon rims... the Zipps eat most pads quickly, quicker than any rims I have ever seen. But Corima and the Aztec formula 1 pads are just a complete no go. I had the Aztec imported from the U.S. and thought they were great. Until I put the carbon rims on for a race/criterium. At one stage I though man I am going to run out of break before the end. There was less that 1mm left at the end. Corima just about the same.

As for most readers knowing this, scary to see that the arguments were on which bike was more race ready.

And here in the U.K. you can rock up at a race with your 10lbs bike and no one will stop you. Just hope no marshalls are reading this, by the way I ride in Scotland........ :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:20 pm 
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Location: Colorado
At the risk of sounding crazy I beleive these are bikes that are "too light". Come on, no offense to Chris and his Dynamic, it's a beautiful machine, but when you use downtube shifters, carbon chain rings, and aerolite pedals, the value of weight saved is grossly offset by the loss in functionality and performance. It's one thing to build a light bike, but if you can only use it by having to carefully shift due to carbon chain rings( which obviously is stupid and wouldn't happen in a race), unable to shift out of your saddle due to top tube shifters( lance only has big chainring with it, not rear), and have tires that could pop at any moment( I've notice alot of people with michelin supersonics on there bike, which is very dangerous, all there good for its TT) is STUPID! To trade functionality to save weight is stupid and defeats the whole point of weight savings. Come on guys use you heads. Francois_viviers@hotmail. I totaly agree with you, and all the stupid stuff done on bikes to save weights is cheating, and your only cheating yourself.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:49 pm 
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Location: tucson
Superlight, I find it ironic that you're accusing people of being obsessed with weight, just due to the fact that you post on this sight more than anyone and you have a 13lb (i believe) bike. Conti supersonics only good for TT, Cheating? they come stock on my bike...i did switch them out for GP 3000s, but still...i think that cheating is a little extreme. As for the fuctionality debate, you made aluminum plates for speedplays...thusly reducing their functionality (somewhat due to longevity) It becomes a slippery slope, and I'm not accusing anyone of anything, cause I'm the same (might buy some of those speedplay plates) BUt whats with all the harshness all the sudden (best bike arguments anyone?) We're all bike dorks, no need for hostility.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:49 am 
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If it came off as being hostile it was not my intention. Just pointing out that people are lossing focus on makeing there bikes "too light" in some cases. As I was saying putting Supersonic tires on for every day riding is stupid, carbon chainrings can easily break, so functionality is lost and offsets the weight saved.

Just to clairify my bike is 13.95lbs, but every part on there is race proven and is made to last. As for my speedplay inserts I hard annodized them because like you were saying they will wear considerbly faster then the standard steel one, but with the hard anodizing there life will be dramatically increased, about 5000 miles.

If I offended anyone my bad, not trying to do that. I understand that people spend countless hours and dollars on there bikes to make them into the machine of there dreams. I'm doing the same, I'm just saying that some parts are kinda dangerous and a pain in the ass to use. If you wanna take the risks its your decesion and I respect that. Maybe my perspective is different because I ride about 12000 miles a year, so durability is very important to me. Just wondering how many miles a year do you guys ride on your bikes? Well I'm gonna go take a nap. :shock:

3 DAYS TO INTERBIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 152
Location: Reggio Emilia, ITALY
I use Conti Supersonics 700x20 daily, but I weight 44kg (that's 97 lbs, I think), but I got a terrible tyre burst during a very fast race downhill... Front wheel... that's not very nice!! Since then I don't trust my Supersonic anymore.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:40 am 
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Location: Germany
@benz: Supersonics don't seem to be very durable.

To the Dynamik Udue: I don't think that it's a bike you can ride every day. Don't know why someone built Carbone Chain rings!?! Carbone is a very useful in some spaces and sometimes much better than steel, alu or titanium, but not for chain rings! The teeth will brake after a few hundred kilometers (maybe earlier). This is definitely a bike you can only put in your room and look at and be glad that you have it but it's not one to ride on!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:52 pm 
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Posts: 2070
Here is a reply I had from Sandro -

- All the weights are measured on a Labor digital
scale

- I had to switch the rear tire because it punctured
twice in a race.

- With the Reynolds rim an the AX-Lightness Combo I
would gain a other 180 gr.

- The bike will be 4200 gr in the spring 2004.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 152
Location: Reggio Emilia, ITALY
Even if this doesn't match with original topic...

@core22:

front : up to 2000km, but after 1000 the profile becomes "too square", and rolling resistance falls dramatically.

rear: up to 800km, but I experienced 1 time a 500km wear limit. After that: you are on the treads!!

I use 20mm, which are less durable, but remember that I weigh 44kg! I don't know if I were 30kg more... Maybe half the duration!!!

Bye, Benz.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:57 pm 
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Location: Colorado
WOW! 44kg! I thought I was light at 58kg. just wondering how old are you and how tall? Your not a women are u? :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:26 pm 
I don't think there is anything wrong with someone building such a light bike, and I would hope they derive some pleasure from doing so. While I'm an admitted weight wienie (hell, I even weigh stuff to find the lightest part in a series), I also like my bikes to be functional. My guiding rule is that it has to be able to last a long hard road race without issues, and that's durable enough. Within that of course I'm going to use Ergo levers or STI (pref Ergo), I'm not going to use 110gm tires (but I used to road race on Veloflex Record tubulars!), nor am I going to have anything that could cause other issues (parts breaking or being too flexable). I ride a 57.5x57cm frame, and use 175 or 177.5mm cranks (depending on the existance of climbs), so I'm not a small guy (6'3"). Partly it depends on the rider, his style (gear masher, whether he is smooth), and how his pothole avoiding skills are. I use stuff like 275gm alloy rims built into 24h 515gm front and 625gm rear wheels, but I don't expect to ride them all the time either. So, it's up to the individual. My personal weight orientated bike weighs 14.5lbs, and that's about as low as I can go, although it's 1180gm EM2 frame is getting a U2 counterpart, and I have some lighter parts to play with, so watch this space![/img]


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:05 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Can you post your bike on the site?


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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:05 pm 


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