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 Post subject: The future of Shifting
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:34 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: New York City
how much longer will rear and front der. be in use, till its replaced by something more efficient, that shifts better under even under the most extreme conditions, how about instant engagement?

what do you guys think will be the next move in cycling. i think Rohloff is a good example - it has a few kinks to be worked out needs to be lightened up, but from all the reviews i have read, and the people i know who have the hub, they say the system is bomb proof. but i am not talking about the hub, there is a modified version that goes in the center of the frame; thus taking the weight off the rear hub and putting it in the center of the bike.

check it out
Image

could this system work for road cycling? i think even now with the extra weight of the Rohloff hub, we can still come in at UCI weight of 15 -15.5 lbs.

here is a pic of a bike that uses the system, it is not a road bike, but just so you get the picture.
Image
Image
Image

What does everyone think, any :idea: does anyone think this could work for a road bike? more info for anyone intrested :arrow: http://www.g-boxx.org/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:30 pm 
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Location: Colorado
I know at least three semi pro downhill riders who use that system. Stable weight, less loose bits to break, fast accelerating wheels.

weight vs range of gears and reliability at a light weight would be deciding factors as is cost

It would be good to see some one come up with a new solution. Get Shimano and Campy to get their act together.


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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:30 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Future of Shifting
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4479
Location: Canada
Quote:
i think even now with the extra weight of the Rohloff hub, we can still come in at UCI weight of 15 -15.5 lbs
Nah. I have seen the Rohloff. It is a giant pig. Even with all of the other components off of an MTB it weighs a tonne. I think we will see the electric Record way before something more revolutionary...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:21 pm
Posts: 101
Location: U.S.
I had a Rohloff hub for a bit... on a town bike (closer to a road bike than a mtn bike).

My opinion is that no internal hub (Rohloff included) will be useable (on the road) until the ratios are more suited for the application.

Rohloff's ratios are very evenly spaced, but that's not what's required for road riding. As the gear ratio gets "longer", the ratios need to get closer and closer together. The jumps between the top few gears need to be very, very small.

Until someone addresses this, an internal hub (regardless of weight) will never be a practical alternative to what we have now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:01 am 
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its an even 13.6 % jump or something close to that.

thats a good point that you need less of a jump as you go through the gears on the road.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:19 pm 
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i really hope campy bypasses this electronic shifting and get with G-BOXX or make their own standard. this would be a nice step foward, not baby step to just better der. shifting.


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 Post subject: Re: Future of Shifting
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:58 pm 
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Location: Canada
Quote:
i really hope campy bypasses this electronic shifting and get with G-BOXX or make their own standard
I hear you. The problem is that, given the inefficiency of the engine (i.e., us!), there is little to gain from greatly increased mechanical efficiency versus lighter weight (hence this forum), assuming that the system maintains adequate reliability.

The claims that G Boxxers make about mechanical failure of derailleur-based systems belies the fact that it is pneumatic tires that are the leading cause of mechanical failure in road racing and that the rate of failure of modern race components (Dura-Ace, Record) is probably adequate, given the advantage in weight saving.

Additionally, the derailleur-based system IS Campagnolo's own standard. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:21 pm
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Location: U.S.
It's very, VERY difficult to beat a chain for mechanical efficiency. Even having just one or two gear meshes will result in poor efficiency compared to a chain.

IMO, the next step (granted, an evolution, not a revolution) is to get the indexing for the rear derailler *AT* the rear derailler... instead of 5' away at the shifter. That *might* require 2 cables instead of one, but I believe they could be very small. Once the detents are at the derailler, adjustments will be a thing of the past.

Once again; my opinion only...


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 Post subject: Zap
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:41 pm 
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Posts: 1902
uphillisgood wrote:
IMO, the next step (granted, an evolution, not a revolution) is to get the indexing for the rear derailler *AT* the rear derailler... instead of 5' away at the shifter. That *might* require 2 cables instead of one, but I believe they could be very small. Once the detents are at the derailler, adjustments will be a thing of the past


Shimano has had a go at this, atleast once, and the Mavic Zap system worked this way as well.

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 Post subject: Zap
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:41 pm 


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