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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Posts: 97
Location: West Sussex, UK
Sorry... forgot to say that your optimum fat burning heart rates are around 50-75% max heart rate but varies upon individuals and how fit and efficient you are.
The heart rates for endurance type training is approx. 65-80% max heart rate. Again these heart rates vary upon fitness.


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 Post subject: Re: Training
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 12:40 pm
Posts: 14
marktickner wrote:
If your looking to lose weight then it's simple. Burn more 'calories' than you consume. The harder you work the more calories you burn. But these calories at higher intensities are scourced from glycogen (carbohydrates and sugars).

If it's fat that your looking to burn then it's entirely different.
In order to get lean body tissue you have to train at lower intensities for longer periods to maximise fat metabolism. This 'easy' work mixed with the right amount of strength and speed work will maximise your fat metabolism further still when training AND at rest! This in turn will improve your power to weight ration. Get the training intensities wrong and you risk injury, stiff and sore musles and the possibility and worse case scenario of losing fitness!

Here is a simple guide and based on the results my fitness testing business 'Trainsmart' has seen in testing over 200 road/mountain cyclists/ triathletes/ runners and non sport related individuals.

At your optimum fat burning zone you use approximately 30-60% of your energy from fat (slow release energy) and 30-80% from carbohydrates and sugars (quick release energy).

At around your endurance intensity that reduces to approx. 10-35% from fat and 65-90% carbs and sugars.

At higher intensities of Anaerobic threshold or higher (race pace over shorter distances) you source all your energy from carbs and sugars only and no longer fat burn!

So when you run out of carbs/sugars you will 'bonk' or 'hit the wall' etc...
Consider that you lose approx. 500-1000calories an hour and you will soon run out of energy if you train too hard all the time!

Your body has around 30-40'000 fat calories available for fuel as energy.
But only 2500-4500 calories available from carbs and sugars!
So you have approx. 10 times the available energy from fats!

Train your body to source fat for fuel properly and you not only will go longer without fatiguing but also go faster, recover quicker and be able to do harder sessions more frquently!

This is how Lance Armstrong has enabled himself to recover quicker between stages over the other riders and have more fuel available to his working muscles so he can ride harder, stronger, faster and further than most! He is not necessarily 'fitter' than the other Tour contenders just more efficient at how his body uses fuel etc...
Mark
www.trainsmart.com


I hate to disagree with you here when you're citing lance in your post but I will just put another idea across here as we're talking about fat loss and it's in a training discussion forum :)

To say that there is one and only one way to burn fact is incorrect. Scientific research has in fact proven other methods to be more effective than the traditional "fat burning" train of though.

A key point that was missed in the previous post is that it's not the type of tissue that you burn whilst training, it's more the effect in terms of overall calorie consumption and the increase in your metabolism.

Interval training has been proven more effective at reducing body fat in numerous scientific papers http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html

Anyway that is just my 2 pence :)


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 Post subject: Re: Training
Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:04 am 


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:59 am
Posts: 1386
Location: Sydney, Australia
I do lots of excercise at 85%+ of my MHR and I'm loosing weight, so it makes sense that intervals would be effective for losing weight.

I do little training and as much racing as possible. I might do more moterpace in the near future.

Brian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Posts: 97
Location: West Sussex, UK
I didn't say LSD training is the only way to lose fat! This type of training teaches your body to metabolise fats for longer distances so that you can sustain longer efforts without fatigue.
Mix this type of training with intervals at or below or above anaerobic threshold and you will burn fat this way also. Not necessarily whilst exercising at these higher levels but after your training! Doing proper training at the proper intensities will in fact teach your body to burn more fat during exercise and at rest!

For instance... as I am a top age group/elite triathlete and very strong road racer and time trialler I know through testing that my body burns anywhere between 0 and 9g of fat per minute during varying levels of exercise. Wheras training partners of my own age, similar fitness level over shorter distances and not longer distances only burn between 0 and 4g of fat a minute during exercise!
So I am over 200% more efficient at using fat for fuel when exercising. Simply because I train longer efforts properly at my optimum fat burning zones and is why I am better at long road races/time trials and recover quicker for the next day so I am ready to train again!

Work harder and you will burn more calories!
Work too hard and your body stops burning fat during exercise!
Get the right balance of hard and steadier work and your metabolism increases not only during exercise but at rest also! So your body needs more fuel to keep it's energy levels up! This is why all pro cyclists/triathletes eat close to 3-5000 calories every day! The average man uses between 1200-2500 calories per day!

Mark


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 12:40 pm
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:D A lot of calories :)

Sorry if my post sounded like a flame!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 12:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:59 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Mark, from my own personal experience I disagree.

I do nearly no training (I'm a lazy sod) but race at 100% every Sat and train at 100% every Sun without fail.

During my weekdays a 500m walk down the main street is about as hard and as long as I do. I really am a lazy sod during the week.

Come my weekend I race and train with the aim of making my legs sore and increasing my muscle mass (upper body) in order to keep my metabolism high and shape.

I've been losing weight this week even though I've done no excercise and little training in the 50-75% range apart from riding to my races.

I'm not saying your theory doesn't work, just that it's not the only method of burning fat.

Brian


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:05 am
Posts: 1011
Not sure if this qualifies as "over developed muscle" but I think I pushed it too hard this past weekend on a training ride. Felt fine when I got back, after a good stretch no problems, maybe a little tightness. BUT, next day awoke with the back of my right hamstring sore as hell .. and now when I walk I favor it a bit. I think I'm going to lay off training the rest of the week because I have a 300k brevet this saturday (I'd be taking it easy anyway because of that). Any suggestions .. hope this will go away in 3 days or so?


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:59 am
Posts: 1386
Location: Sydney, Australia
Sounds similar to the weight and resistance training I used to do (I have a recreational body building background).

My muscles take a long time to recover and thus hurt longer and grow larger. I can be sore for a week following a hard training session on the bike of at the gym, and as I recover I get tighter and stronger.

What ever training you did you must have done it well, make sure you give your muscles time to recover and GROW. Try repeating your training for growth and modify it to avoid plateuing.

Good luck

Brian


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