Terrible creaking on madone 9

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markyboy
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: Bristol uk

by markyboy

As per title i have a terrible creaking when in and out of the saddle,not sure if its the bb or something else.
I have ceramic speed bb90 and when i installed i used morgan blue aqua paste,not sure if this is strong enough.
I have greased all the usual suspects but still creaking,is it possible to use some sort of loctite on bb or no as if i need to
replace them in the future what would they be like to remove.
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AJS914
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

That Morgan Blue stuff is grease. That will allow the bearings to move in the frame. You need some type of retaining compound like loctite 609.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

The Morgan Blue AquaProof Paste is NOT "grease" that is used for bearing lubrication, etc. and should not get anywhere close to the actual bearings themselves. I think it even says so on the jar. It serves a similar purpose as antiseize in that it prevents oxidation between parts. It has a high adhesion factor but is not a retaining compound like Loctite 609. I used it on my C60 BB between the pressfit cups and the Threadfit cups. Typically uses are where you might use an antiseize product, like pressfift headsets and bb cups between the cups and the frame shell. The TREK BB90 BB is really a "slipfit", meaning you could just push the bearings in by hand into the shell, but usually isn't perfect. I find that using a proper press here, while not a pressfit application, will help ensure that the bearings are fully seated in the shell, whereas just pushing them in by hand might not achieve that.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

AJS914
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Morgan Blue AquaProof Paste is NOT "grease"


It's listed as a "synthetic grease" under the "grease" section of their web site. Granted, they say it's not for bearings.

markyboy
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: Bristol uk

by markyboy

Calnago wrote:The Morgan Blue AquaProof Paste is NOT "grease" that is used for bearing lubrication, etc. and should not get anywhere close to the actual bearings themselves. I think it even says so on the jar. It serves a similar purpose as antiseize in that it prevents oxidation between parts. It has a high adhesion factor but is not a retaining compound like Loctite 609. I used it on my C60 BB between the pressfit cups and the Threadfit cups. Typically uses are where you might use an antiseize product, like pressfift headsets and bb cups between the cups and the frame shell. The TREK BB90 BB is really a "slipfit", meaning you could just push the bearings in by hand into the shell, but usually isn't perfect. I find that using a proper press here, while not a pressfit application, will help ensure that the bearings are fully seated in the shell, whereas just pushing them in by hand might not achieve that.

Bearings pushed in with this tool https://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Wheel ... -Tool/EUEM
will it hurt if i used loctite 609
COLNAGO C60 SUPER RECORD EPS
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SpecializedColnago
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:33 pm

by SpecializedColnago

I used Loctite 609 retaining compound on my old 2011 Trek Madone after having creaking issues and I never had another creak for the rest of the bearings life after. I finally wore the bearings out after I used it as my dedicated rain bike for a year and the removal process was very easy. Only took 2 whacks each side with the park tool BB90 bearing removal tool and hammer so the shear strength of the 609 is low enough for removal. Before the retaining compound the bearings were loose enough in the shell to insert by hand and spin the outer part of the bearing in the shell. I would recommend using the Loctite primer before using the 609 because carbon is inactive. You need the primer to help with adhesion and drying.

markyboy
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: Bristol uk

by markyboy

SpecializedColnago wrote:I used Loctite 609 retaining compound on my old 2011 Trek Madone after having creaking issues and I never had another creak for the rest of the bearings life after. I finally wore the bearings out after I used it as my dedicated rain bike for a year and the removal process was very easy. Only took 2 whacks each side with the park tool BB90 bearing removal tool and hammer so the shear strength of the 609 is low enough for removal. Before the retaining compound the bearings were loose enough in the shell to insert by hand and spin the outer part of the bearing in the shell. I would recommend using the Loctite primer before using the 609 because carbon is inactive. You need the primer to help with adhesion and drying.

Ok thanks i will look into getting it.
COLNAGO C60 SUPER RECORD EPS
Pinarello f8 sram etap
Eddy merckx 69 ultegra disc winter bike

markyboy
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: Bristol uk

by markyboy

What primer is it and do you mix them or put on before loctite?
COLNAGO C60 SUPER RECORD EPS
Pinarello f8 sram etap
Eddy merckx 69 ultegra disc winter bike

jj911c2
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:46 am

by jj911c2

Two items to try that helped on my Madone 9:
* Make sure the dropouts are clean/greased -- the frame transmits a lot of noise and a couple times i have gotten creaking from this area.
* Make sure the seatpost has grease on it all the way down -- I think it pivots slightly due to ISO system and can make a lot of noise

Each time I thought it was the BB it ended up being one of the two issues above.

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TonyM
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

my bad creaking noise was coming from the QR!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=147477

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cyclespeed
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

Creaks can come from lots of places; pedals, headset (even if convinced it's from BB - sound travels down carbon tubes!), seatpost and clamp, etc. etc.

TomHelly
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

by TomHelly

Grease is fine for BB90 carbon BB shell prep unless your particular bearing seats are fairly generously sized. Pressing the bearings in 'dry' or with retaining compound is not for the faint of heart... You'll hear loud popping noises as the bearings 'step' their way in rather than glide.

All the Madone 9's I've built to date (roughly 60) have been pretty consistent. Vastly improved from ~2010-2012 6 Series bikes as others have mentioned.


Another potential culprit:

Gently pop the Isospeed covers off using a plastic knife or tyre lever and check it's still snug. Add more blue threadlock and reinstall if loose.

Loose Isospeed will make noise both in and out of the saddle. You might even notice the plastic covers poking out a bit if it's started to come loose.

hambini
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am

by hambini

I had a viewer of my youtube channel who emailed me with a video of his creaking

https://youtu.be/nFSlETyd4Xo?t=20m10s

I'm doing a case study as my next video but the way I fixed it was to get him some bearings that were on the top end of the tolerance (+ stiffer) and machine him up some special adaptors so he could use 6805's instead of 2437's.

I would 100% not use grease to push bearings in. None of the bearing manufacturers recommend it and it can attack carbon. If you need to use lubricant. I would use PTFE spray

Hambini

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Calnago
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by Calnago

We are talking about TREK's BB90 Bottom bracket here, right? That's a "slipfit" BB, not a true interference pressfit, although I would recommend using a press to ensure the bearings are seated properly, since the bore of the shell is rarely perfectly cylindrical and will likely be a bit tight somewhere if you try to just slip them in by hand, although on my Emonda the shell was very very good and the bearings could slide in all the way, the same way a Campy Ultratorque crankset will just slide into the Campy cups. But most definitely coat the bearing seats with grease otherwise I'm sure you will get creaking as the dry bearings rub against the seats. I'd stay away from using retaining compounds here except as a last resort since it's easy for the compound to make its way into the bearings as they are being inserted. If you did use a retaining compound (and primer), I would only apply it to the outer race of the bearings before inserting. If you were to apply it to the shell as well, then as you insert them some retaining compound would certainly get squished towards the back and out the bearing seats and most likely into the bearings themselves from the backside. Trek did have some bearings that were slightly oversize for use in shells that had somehow got enlarged, but I think the current Treks are for most part pretty good. But yes, grease is definitely required in Trek's BB90 shells.

I'm not sure why Hambini is making the recommendation NOT to use grease here. And I've never heard of grease "attacking" carbon. In fact, that's how most headsets are these days... the headtubes have the carbon bearing seats molded into the carbon and you just drop the bearings right in top and bottom, with appropriate amounts of grease.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

You assume it's the BB but it might be the rear quick release. Just had that on a Domane that we were all sure it was the BB when it wasn't.

Another thing that creaked was the hollowtech 2 shimano crank arm. The bolts holding the left crank arm weren't torqued high enough.

Finally after months of creaking under load it's now quiet.

When the creaking started I had replaced the BB so we all thought it had to do with that when it wasn't.

/a

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