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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:19 pm 
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Posts: 491
I have been a lifelong Campagnolo loyalist through thick and thin. But today I said goodbye to my last Campagnolo groupset. I was waiting for their disc brake groupset, and was so pleased to see the early pictures of post mount brakes. Unfortunately they haven't put post mount into production, and my winter bike is built around big clearances with post mount brakes. With Etap and the next generations of Di2, sadly I have to admit that Campagnolo are falling terminally behind the market.

Having been really impressed by the Etap on my race bike, I finally got my hands on Etap HRD for the all weather bike and took it for its first ride today. Not much to add about Etap itself. Clean lines, great shifting (if a little slower than EPS and Di2). The HRD parts are amazing though. The levers feel even more comfortable than the rim brake version, the brakes are easy to set up, trim and bleed and in use offer a significant performance advantage vs the mechanical brakes that they replaced.

Image

This bike is not the lightest, it doesn't have swoopy carbon lines, but with big tyres, disc brakes, dynamo lighting, mudguards and custom geometry it is just a blast to ride in any conditions. If I only had one bike, this would be the one. So versatile.

Frame - Seven Axiom SLX
Fork - ENVE CX
Headset - Chris King Inset 7 (black)
Chainset - SRAM Red 22 (175mm, 50 / 34t)
Bottom Bracket - Chris King Threadfit 24
Pedals - Look Keo Carbon CroMo
Front Derailleur - SRAM Red eTap
Rear Derailleur - SRAM Red eTap
Shifters - SRAM Red eTap HRD
Brakes - SRAM Red eTap HRD
Chain - SRAM Red 22
Cassette - SRAM Red (11 / 28)
Hubs - SON Delux / Chris King R45 Disc (32 hole)
Rims - ENVE XC clincher (32 hole)
Spokes - Sapim CX Ray
Quick Release - DT RWS Ti
Tyres - Clement X'Plor USH (35mm)
Stem - Fizik R1 (110mm)
Bars - Fizik Cyrano 00 Bull (420mm)
Seatpost - Fizik R1
Saddle - Fizik Arione 00
Bottle Cages - King Titanium
Grip - Fizik 2mm

I have also made a few changes to my Axiom SL race bike. I swapped the wheels from Lightweight Melinestein Obermayers to Zipp 404 NSW, swapping tubular for clincher (and I honestly can't tell the ride quality difference, particularly on Surrey's pot filled roads). They are perceivably less stiff (really nothing beats Lightweights on that front), but much more true both laterally and vertically and perceivably more aero and less prone to side winds. The braking on the new brake track is also outstanding.

I also had both sets of forks resprayed in a gloss metallic black with more subtle logos.

Before I get the usual comments, I am a tall chap and I prefer a few spacers to a really long head tube (these both fit me like a glove). They never look as balanced in photos as they do in the flesh.

Image

Frame - Seven Axiom SL
Fork - ENVE 2.0
Headset - Chris King Inset 7 (black)
Chainset - SRAM Red 22 (175mm, 52 / 36t)
Bottom Bracket - Chris King Threadfit 24
Pedals - Look Keo Carbon Ti
Front Derailleur - SRAM Red eTap
Rear Derailleur - SRAM Red eTap
Shifters - SRAM Red eTap
Brakes - SRAM Red 22
Chain - SRAM Red 22
Cassette - SRAM Red (11 / 28)
Hubs - Zipp 404 NSW
Rims - Zipp 404 NSW
Spokes - Zipp 404 NSW
Quick Release - DT RWS Cromo
Tyres - Vittoria Corsa Pave (28mm)
Stem - Fizik R1 (120mm)
Bars - Fizik Cyrano R1 Bull (420mm)
Seatpost - Fizik R1
Saddle - Fizik Arione 00
Bottle Cages - King Titanium
Grip - Fizik 2mm

And both together:

Image


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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:19 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Seven Axiom eTap HRD
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Location: Atlanta, GA, US
Love'em both; well done.

Your post also reminded me how much I miss my Seven (Elium SLX), should have never sold...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:27 pm
Posts: 92
Very nice pair of Seven.

Trivial question, but does Seven make those fenders equipped on the winter bike?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Posts: 491
Nope, they are SKS Chromoplastic. Seven did however do the carbon work on the fork to fit eyelets (high up the legs to avoid disc interference) and dynamo cable routing. Sadly they don't offer this option any longer.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Posts: 1390
Wow, those both look great!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:44 am 
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Posts: 753
Nice bikes. Out of curiosity: why is post mount important? Would flat mount not work out the same?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:01 am 
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Posts: 491
The frame and forks are a little over 3 years old. As an early adopter of discs, post mount and 135/100 quick releases were the norm. Nowadays flat mount and 142/100 thru axles have settled down as the norm, and Shimano and Campagnolo have released only flat mount calipers in their new groupsets.

Because of the clearances, the bike uses a CX fork, which even today in the Enve range comes in post mount only (albeit with thru axle), and indeed many CX frames also do since they use mountain bike standards as much as road standards.

To me there is nothing wrong with quick releases and post mount, but were I to build the bike today I would go for flat mount and thru axles just for the sake of meeting current standards and future proofing the bike. Fortunately SRAM introduced a post mount option for Etap HRD so there is plenty of life in the old dog yet!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:11 am 
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Posts: 753
Ah OK. My winter bike also has drop outs and PM. I never saw a PM -> flat mount adapter, so I guess Campy was out for you.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 491
Yep, no adapter available.

Otherwise since I had all of the rest of a Super Record EPS groupset on the bike before I would have probably stuck with Campagnolo for the sake of cost to change.

As it stands Campagnolo have probably lost me for good. I just don't think that they have the R&D budgets to keep up. Shimano and SRAM have scale and diversity on their side that helps to sustain niche R&D. Let's face it the kind of bikes we ride on this forum are not exactly mainstream and the $200 family bike groupset market helps to fund the development of our flashy toys. Campagnolo just don't have that (or fishing, or mountain biking, or suspension, or components) to dip into so as time goes by it will become increasingly difficult for them.

Anyway, this isn't (just) a thread about how miffed I am with Campagnolo! In answer to your original question, I dare say if I were starting with a flat mount frame I would have gone Italian!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1973
Location: Sydney, Aus.
Get some PDW Full Metal Fenders for that all-weather bike - they'll give you better coverage and they look cleaner.

Awesome bikes - I'd have one of each built almost exactly the same if I had the funds (with flat mount & thru-axle on the all-weather; and with something other than Zipps on the race).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:41 am
Posts: 1847
Nice bikes, I'm sure they'll be lots of fun! I like the bigger head tubes these days...

I prefer the rim braked bike and don't agree about Campagnolo being terminal though...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:26 am 
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Posts: 491
I'll check out those fenders. They do look neat, but I wonder if the SKS double stays might be stiffer than the single stays on the PDW version. Coverage seems about the same.

Interesting comment about the Zipps. I have tried quite a few wheels in the bike and on balance the Zipps are my favourite. In my experience:

Enve 4.5 (tub) - light but vastly over priced, not that well finished, more prone to side winds, very flexy.

Lightweight Obermayer (tub) - super lightweight, super stiff, excellent power transfer but woefully out of true both laterally and vertically, not very aero, narrow, outdated width and prone to cross winds.

Campagnolo Bora Ultra (tub) - nice, but I just can't mix Campagnolo wheels with SRAM. Just doesn't feel right! Plus the G3 spoking is a little troublesome to true and the rim profile is a little outdated.

Campagnolo Hyperon (tub) - possibly my favourite wheel of all time, but I wanted something aero, and again I couldn't bring myself to mix Campagnolo and SRAM.

Plus various hand builts which I do love, but there is a weight and aero penalty that I don't think is worth the ride quality and serviceability advantage.

I haven't tried the latest Reynolds, Mavic or DT which do look interesting, but honestly the Zipps are great. The rim technology is streets ahead of the competition and so far the hubs are reliable (something I was worried about). As my first experience with carbon clinchers, I am hugely impressed.


Last edited by solarider on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:09 am 
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Posts: 753
solarider wrote:
The rim technology is streets ahead of the competition


That's a bit of a marketing koolaid statement :-). I wouldn't say they are streets ahead in tech, but in how they sell it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 491
Having owned and examined the rims personally that's my observation, not marketing spin.

Brake surface: The brake surface works better than anything else. All that Enve have done is add a textured layer of resin that will eventually wear down. Campagnolo have machined away the outer layer of cosmetic lacquer to expose the more grippy carbon substrate. Lightweight have done precisely nothing. Zipp have machined grooves that are structural and really do work. In addition the brake track itself is perfectly parallel.

Aerodynamics: Having ridden all of the above, the Zipps are perceivably less prone to side winds than any of them, and in the case of Lightweights, significantly so. Whether the dimples work, whether the shape works, I don't know, but they definitely feel faster. Wind tunnel results are too 'perfect world' for my liking. Having ridden quite a few wheels I trust my own feeings just as much. And ultimately I ride for enjoyment and the Zipps make for the bigger smile.

Construction: Lightweight and Enve feel quite 'handmade' with visible flaws and imperfections in the lay up. Campagnolo are visually good, but again Zipp have produced a perceivably better quality product. The use of external nipples also adds to serviceability. The Lightweights are unique and don't claim to be the best aerodynamically. They claim to be the lightest and stiffest and in this regard they succeed but the aerodynamic and serviceability trade off was to much for me.

I am not a Zipp fanboy (in fact I have avoided them for years because of their hub reliability), but having spent thousands of my own £s on wheels, these are just my observations. I am sure that other people have different opinions, but for my money, Zipp currently get my vote (and cash).


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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:17 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:41 am 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1973
Location: Sydney, Aus.
solarider wrote:
I'll check out those fenders. They do look neat, but I wonder if the SKS double stays might. E stiffer than the single stays on the PDW version. Coverage seems about the same.

The extra rubber flaps make the coverage better on the PDWs. In my experience they're every bit as stiff as any other fender on the market - mainly on account of their boxier shape, which keeps them stiff.

solarider wrote:
Interesting comment about the Zipps. I have tried quite a few wheels in the bike and on balance the Zipps are my favourite.

Each to their own, and I'm sure the Zipps are good - for me, the hub recalls kill them as an option, and I don't think they're worth the fairly extreme prices.

Not faulting your decision, though - they certainly look the goods.


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