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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:35 am 
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Posts: 92
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY6btAPsbsk

I was pretty disturbed to hear cycle industry propaganda talking about 'hydraulic disk brakes freeing up frame space to allow manufacturers to innovate' sounds exactly like the MTB 27.5, boost and fat and plus wheel and axle options propaganda that have been floating around the MTB industry. On my bike with alloy Campaganolo or DT Swiss rims my 105 rim brakes with stock pads in the dry have exactly the same power AND modulation as the Shimano XT and SLX brakes I've been using for years on my MTBs. But rim brakes are so easy to set up, don't drag, don't need to be bled or the disk trued, also disk brake pads are expensive and can get contaminated quite easily.

I'm not against hydraulic disk brakes, they have their place, commuting, bike-packing, gravel and very good for companies not getting sued by people using carbon rim brake wheels and can save money as you only need to replace a disk not a rim and can be more aero. However in MTB riders were duped into leaving 26 inch for 27.5. All the best wheels and tires only in 27.5. 26 inch? 'Sorry mate not available'. And now 27.5 will be phased out being replaced by 29 inch. 20mm axles 12mm axles, boost spacing, plus spacing. The cycle industry trying to make more money but creating redundant dead end standards.

In the end as I've said before there is nothing really wrong with hydraulic brakes other than the weight and extra wrenching skill needed, but my worry is that all the pros will be forced onto disks by their sponsors and then everyone else will be left being forced in that direction. Buying a bike at the UCI weight limit or getting an entry level bike upgraded to that weight will become hugely more expensive, and if you live in a fairly low rainfall country it will be an almost completely unnecessary waste of money.


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Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:35 am 


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:01 am 
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Totally agree!

Having moved to a region where raining is a common situation (west coast of Canada) I am however quite pleased to see disc brakes on (racing) road bikes.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:02 am 
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It'll be a decade at least until you're struggling to find a frame or parts for your rim brake road bike! By then disc brake tech will be lighter, more aero, and much improved aesthetically (those shifters!)

I base that estimate on upgrade cycles, typically 3-4 years for groupsets and accounting for some innovation outside of incremental revisionism.

UCI weight limit will be reduced by then no doubt too, and frame and fork weights will be lower than they are today. The future of bikes is all good. Looking forward to my 5kg aero disc brake bike :D


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:12 am 
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Location: Brisbane
Wait... your roadie rimbrakes on narrow tyres have the same power and modulation as hydro discs on a fat mtb tyre? I think you're doing something wrong...


And your mtb timeline is wrong. We went to 29 because we were told 26 was crap. Then we went to 27.5 because we were told 29 was too big.

Now? Seems like 29 was right all along.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:24 am 
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bike radar is crap media.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:31 am 
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The bicycle industry is a business at the end of they day, their aim is to make more money.

Seeing disc brakes become prevalent will sell more bikes. Fact.

I'd agree they are by no means perfect at the moment, I work in a bike shop and we see a lot more issues with hydraulic disc's than we ever have with rim brakes. As we get a few generations in they will be more reliable and lighter etc.

You could also argue the pushing of road disc is a by-product of the strict rules the UCI have regarding weight limits and frame design. If manufacturers can't innovate with those two things they are going to have to find something else new to add interest.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:22 am 
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Anyway, the diktat is aerodynamics, which means that only fully integrated braking systems can prevail. Everything else is just a step towards that, with disc brakes being a bit of a side-track in light of current restrictions. Like total hinted at, if it weren't for the UCI, we'd have some crazy fully integrated road weapons with HUD's on the motorbike like fairings!

You don't even have to have a wild imagination it, just think of a motorbike, or a TT concept bike. Or here, Spesh ran it through a modeller, came out something like this:

Image

That's what we should be riding today, not jazzed up versions of early 1900s tech.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2371
Location: Vienna Austria
kill it with fire


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
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Location: Vienna Austria
Totally agree with the OP, a bicycle should be an exercise in simplicity.


Reduce, remove everything you don't need, strive for "good enough" instead of "better than you need", and go out and ride.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:59 am 
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'Everything you don't need' is a loaded statement but technically meaningless. As for a bike being an exercise in simplicity? It can be for you. It ca be an exercise in layers of brown paint if you want it to be. An exercise in seeing how many stickers we can get on there.

In engineering terms, 'everything you don't need' would be set by the project's parameters. Individually, it can mean any washy thing you want it to.

If you don't like a certain type of bike, don't buy it. But to actually not want to see progress? If you ever catch yourself making comments like that, it's time for self-evaluation. That's not about cycling, that's something else.

The future will need efficient solar-powered e-bikes that are stable, aerodynamic, and quick. They will need to be this as a mode of transport that can provide all types of people transport over a large range of distances. People can keep their custom frame coffee shop bikes with their little badges on it and preach minimalism from their touch-screen £800 phones all they want, but the world has more important issues at hand. To not see that is deeply myopic.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:18 am 
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Location: Vienna Austria
You're talking about motorbikes.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:30 am 
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No. e-bikes and push-bikes will appear almost indistinguishable. You can already see the philosophy at play in 2017.

And don't wind me up, I'm calorie restricting right now. :D


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:12 pm
Posts: 136
Shrike wrote:
if it weren't for the UCI, we'd have some crazy fully integrated road weapons with HUD's on the motorbike like fairings!

You don't even have to have a wild imagination it, just think of a motorbike, or a TT concept bike. Or here, Spesh ran it through a modeller, came out something like this:

Image

That's what we should be riding today, not jazzed up versions of early 1900s tech.


another stupid marketing exercise from specialized.

the UCI doesnt impose restriction on what you can be riding today.

if you want to pedal aero-optimized machines, you can

Image

or a 2 wheeler, nobody will stop you

Image

even kids can get their motorcycle-like fairings

Image


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Fatal lack in understanding of normative social influence there gewichtweenie.


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Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:24 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:16 pm
Posts: 72
Location: United Kingdom
Agreed, I have disks on my mountain bike and gravel bike, but will never buy a road bike with them, ever


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