XX1 rings alternative - it works!!
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tehan - any plans about making a lighter alternative to the sram xx1 cassette?
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I can fully appreciate that what does not look good to me may look attractive to others. Here's my take though, there's a big difference between making a product to solve real world problems that customers demand and making a product with features designed to solve obscure problems in the real world that no-one ever actually encounters but look good on marketing material. Both may sell equally well and be good for business but one is for performance and one for taking advantage of customers lacking critical insight in to the product. I just know which approach appeal personally to me more. As a business though I can appreciate the temptations and difficulties both ways.
The singlespeed sprocket is something that seems more marketing than performance which the hub shells also look in danger of as presented. Anyone who actually spends any time riding singlespeed for example will see a narrow wide sprocket and the advantages described as nonsense. A curious person who has never ridden singlespeed may be otherwise convinced by a whole host of "problems" they never knew existed (and of course would never actually encounter but they don't know any different).
I kind of see the hub shell shape and massive bearings along these lines- look great for marketing but you tell me how many people have "suffered" with a round shell and normal bearing sizes in an otherwise well designed hub? This hub seems to be in competition with Hope, Syntace, Acros, etc and also a lot of prebuilt wheels like Mavic in the Trail/ Enduro segment. I feel the appeal could be wider with lower weight (well I would it is Weightweenies
) in which case a normal shell and smaller bearings would let you achieve everything for a clear market leader (not many light, durable hubs let alone with magnetic freehubs). Hope make idiot proof hubs but they are pretty cheap too so (without knowing pricing) you'd have to assume that is some tough competition to shift.
Ok, rant over but some hopefully constructive feedback on what appears to be a marketing first approach lately that someone who rides a fair bit would see right through (opinion also expressed by others above). Of course if it is working for AB at the moment then who are any of us to say what is best for business but the above opinion above would be a perspective of a customer originally in to AB for light, highly functional, beautifully finished products that sees through marketing BS (of any company).
The singlespeed sprocket is something that seems more marketing than performance which the hub shells also look in danger of as presented. Anyone who actually spends any time riding singlespeed for example will see a narrow wide sprocket and the advantages described as nonsense. A curious person who has never ridden singlespeed may be otherwise convinced by a whole host of "problems" they never knew existed (and of course would never actually encounter but they don't know any different).
I kind of see the hub shell shape and massive bearings along these lines- look great for marketing but you tell me how many people have "suffered" with a round shell and normal bearing sizes in an otherwise well designed hub? This hub seems to be in competition with Hope, Syntace, Acros, etc and also a lot of prebuilt wheels like Mavic in the Trail/ Enduro segment. I feel the appeal could be wider with lower weight (well I would it is Weightweenies
) in which case a normal shell and smaller bearings would let you achieve everything for a clear market leader (not many light, durable hubs let alone with magnetic freehubs). Hope make idiot proof hubs but they are pretty cheap too so (without knowing pricing) you'd have to assume that is some tough competition to shift.Ok, rant over
but some hopefully constructive feedback on what appears to be a marketing first approach lately that someone who rides a fair bit would see right through (opinion also expressed by others above). Of course if it is working for AB at the moment then who are any of us to say what is best for business but the above opinion above would be a perspective of a customer originally in to AB for light, highly functional, beautifully finished products that sees through marketing BS (of any company).Hi there. Regarding tehan's last post, I just wish to stress that the ENO hub he refers to didn't collapse because of anything I did, as his post seems to imply. Having built well over 10,000 wheels in my 33 years in the biz I'm entirely confident in my abilities, and this is the only hub anything like this has ever happened to. The hub had been previously built twice before I was given it, and had clearly had a hard life. As I said in my blog at the time, I had barely even put any tension on the spokes when this happened - I was only at the point of evenly winding the spokes down, and well before putting decent tension on them. Thanks for your time.
Not really sure what to answer you Dan.
I ride singlespeed myself (under 7kg) as well and all i can see i get longer life out of my alu cogs compared to what i have been using before from competition(alu as well). Teeth profile has more meat to wear out, so they just live longer compared to pointed teeth. In addition may riders these days use carbon frames with standard dropouts (as these are usually lighter than proper singlespeed frame). Such frames are a bit more flexy as well and what you experience is a kind of clicking noise from cogs as chain migrates left to right on the cog while pedaling hard. Sometimes it is more poping noise as like chain would want to come off. This chainring solves that issue.
It also helps a lot when you use your full sus bike as a singlespeed. What we found is there is actually a lot of such conversions.
Yes, with proper singlespeed frame with sliders you may not experience anything written above. But if you have sub 7-8kg singlespeed bikes problem starts to occur. (remember that such frames do need chain keeper). There are thousands of such builds. So yes, we do not aim at whole singlespeed market. We aim only at top-end builds which suffer from the problem from above.
Like i wrote earlier alloy freehubs are known for cracking or deformations made by cassettes from almost any maker. I have seen thousands of them cracked, hence we use steel to get rid of both problems. Does that bother you? possibly not, as if you crack the freehub you will simply warranty it (and write that you can't use your bike now for a week:). I do everything to not to get warranty claims:) We reinforced and changed things that usually suffer in hubs.
It works both ways. Customer is happy as hubs work and I am happy as i don't have problems with warranty. Bigger companies have whole departments to solve warranty issues like that as there is so many of them. But they still use alloy as it is light and very cheap in manufacturing (for pawl & spring system).
Hence we choose to take different approach as to what is on the market now. Like i also wrote. We don't aim at being the lightest with hubs, but at being most reliable and quite light alongside. I would also not say that our hubs are heavy. We are only 75g heavier per set than Tune hubs and most of this weight gain is in the bearings. Lets be honest, very light hubs break often (if not used like they should be) and have many restrictions to the use and weight. I have made light hubs with no restrictions.
Regards bearings size: Bigger bearing = bigger load capacity. That also means they roll smoother. Read carefully what light hubs are rated for and you will quickly find out weigh restriction of the rider and use. 99% of them are rated for XC and Marathon as smaller bearings can not stand big drops and jumps simply because this would exceed max load capacity of the bearing. Standard bearing size in light hubs is 6803 and max dynamic load for it is 220kg. We use 6903 with dynamic load of 450kg per bearing. Each hub has 2 bearings. Think what force you generate dropping from 1.5m. Hence all those limitations.
Like Henry Ford(car maker) said once: If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse.
have a great Sunday gents.
I ride singlespeed myself (under 7kg) as well and all i can see i get longer life out of my alu cogs compared to what i have been using before from competition(alu as well). Teeth profile has more meat to wear out, so they just live longer compared to pointed teeth. In addition may riders these days use carbon frames with standard dropouts (as these are usually lighter than proper singlespeed frame). Such frames are a bit more flexy as well and what you experience is a kind of clicking noise from cogs as chain migrates left to right on the cog while pedaling hard. Sometimes it is more poping noise as like chain would want to come off. This chainring solves that issue.
It also helps a lot when you use your full sus bike as a singlespeed. What we found is there is actually a lot of such conversions.
Yes, with proper singlespeed frame with sliders you may not experience anything written above. But if you have sub 7-8kg singlespeed bikes problem starts to occur. (remember that such frames do need chain keeper). There are thousands of such builds. So yes, we do not aim at whole singlespeed market. We aim only at top-end builds which suffer from the problem from above.
Like i wrote earlier alloy freehubs are known for cracking or deformations made by cassettes from almost any maker. I have seen thousands of them cracked, hence we use steel to get rid of both problems. Does that bother you? possibly not, as if you crack the freehub you will simply warranty it (and write that you can't use your bike now for a week:). I do everything to not to get warranty claims:) We reinforced and changed things that usually suffer in hubs.
It works both ways. Customer is happy as hubs work and I am happy as i don't have problems with warranty. Bigger companies have whole departments to solve warranty issues like that as there is so many of them. But they still use alloy as it is light and very cheap in manufacturing (for pawl & spring system).
Hence we choose to take different approach as to what is on the market now. Like i also wrote. We don't aim at being the lightest with hubs, but at being most reliable and quite light alongside. I would also not say that our hubs are heavy. We are only 75g heavier per set than Tune hubs and most of this weight gain is in the bearings. Lets be honest, very light hubs break often (if not used like they should be) and have many restrictions to the use and weight. I have made light hubs with no restrictions.
Regards bearings size: Bigger bearing = bigger load capacity. That also means they roll smoother. Read carefully what light hubs are rated for and you will quickly find out weigh restriction of the rider and use. 99% of them are rated for XC and Marathon as smaller bearings can not stand big drops and jumps simply because this would exceed max load capacity of the bearing. Standard bearing size in light hubs is 6803 and max dynamic load for it is 220kg. We use 6903 with dynamic load of 450kg per bearing. Each hub has 2 bearings. Think what force you generate dropping from 1.5m. Hence all those limitations.
Like Henry Ford(car maker) said once: If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse.
have a great Sunday gents.
So here is an image for all wanted to see the inside:) As you can see it is milled out= round. This is why we can keep very good tolerances and great stiffness of the hub. This is not pure gimmick and it actually works great. We got huge interest from many other companies at Eurobike so expect to see them more often soon.
Even Chris King himself was curious and visited our booth:)
They are also ready to order here already:
http://absoluteblack.cc/black-diamond-hubs.html
Even Chris King himself was curious and visited our booth:)
They are also ready to order here already:
http://absoluteblack.cc/black-diamond-hubs.html
Last edited by tehan on Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mattias Hellöre
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I can accept that fact tiny bearings have smaller load ratings. But it is why they fail or lack of stability in hub axle and waterproofing?
Experimental Prototype
Bearings fail once you overload them.
also, when you lace the hub and this is not done 100% correct bearings are getting off the axis by very small distance. This kills them within few months. Mud of course can do it as well, but if you ride in dry conditions and wonder why your bearings live short - this is an answer.
I have got a massive interest on Eurobike from many bike companies and hub manufacturers and they understand that issue when it comes to warranty. Soon you should see these hubs in many bikes:)
here is how it really works:
https://vimeo.com/105035051
also, when you lace the hub and this is not done 100% correct bearings are getting off the axis by very small distance. This kills them within few months. Mud of course can do it as well, but if you ride in dry conditions and wonder why your bearings live short - this is an answer.
I have got a massive interest on Eurobike from many bike companies and hub manufacturers and they understand that issue when it comes to warranty. Soon you should see these hubs in many bikes:)
here is how it really works:
https://vimeo.com/105035051
Getter wrote:Any chance you'll come out with a direct mount oval ring for GXP cranks?
in about month or two.For now you can buy already shimano one:
http://absoluteblack.cc/oval-104bcd-chainring.html
this 32T oval ring is a 30T in dead spot. So best for someone who uses now 28,30 or 32T round ring. Going smaller makes no sense - seriously.
Making an true oval with 30T count is not possible on 104bcd.
Making an true oval with 30T count is not possible on 104bcd.
We will do spiderless version so you will be able to take your spider off and put just my ring. This will save you a lot of weight.
Same as these but oval.
http://absoluteblack.cc/xx1-style-sram.html
Same as these but oval.
http://absoluteblack.cc/xx1-style-sram.html
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Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
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pitbull
Is it possible to use an 11 speed ultegra/dura ace chain with your chainrings and a 10 speed cassette ?
