Just talked to Royce- I'm a bit excited.

[bm0p700f]

A 1996/7 chorus hubs has a steel axle but all the radial NDS hubs they used were low spoke count I think. No 32H campag hub had the NDS laced radially. There is less metal between the holes on a 32H hub which may or may not cause an issue down the line.

[shimmeD]

Hi bm0p700f, Just to clarify, my 96/97 Chorus were handbuilt, the rear in 3x DS and radial NDS.

My question was is it advisable to have the NDS radially laced skipping holes for a 16DS:8NDS 2:1 build on a current Record 32 rear hub?

If it is not advisable to have radial NDS on a current Record hub, why not just cross them (still using only 8 of the 16 holes)? Would that in fact make a better wheel?

[bm0p700f]

Doing radial on a 32H hub is not that advisable whether it will be an issue is another matter and one i cannot answer. If crossed lacing is used on the NDS, it will have to be 1x as 2x is not possible. 1x is barely any better than radial for the hub flange. I would take the risk with this sort of lacing pattern with a much cheaper hub like a Miche Racing box or Primato. the hub flanges are quite thick so presumably will handle the stress better also if the flange crack the hub is cheap to replace.

[bm0p700f]

I am treating my self. I have always wanted to try a proper 2:1 laced wheelset but with a hubset made for it not a standard hub but the BHS hub is just a standard hub with a different drilling pattern so that's out. The whole point of 2:1 lacing is that the NDS flange can be moved a long way out and still good NDS tension is achieved.
If you 2:1 lace with a standard hub with heads out lacing NDS you are actually reduce the flange to centre of hub distance a bit thus reducing the NDS bracing angle and given there are only half the number of spokes on that side now the wheel stiffness drop compared to a convential lacing pattern. Hardly optimal which is why I don't like 2:1 laced wheels when I see them on here much.

There is no hub on the market which does what I want it to do so I had one made. This is a special they normally do not make hubs this way or to the dimesnion below.

Royce Ti/carbon hubs. They are not light with the lockring they are 437g but I think that O.K. Thay have Ti flanges, Ti hub Ti everything, carbon shell and NTN 6001 bearings.

the PCD is 45mm for the rear and the centre flange to centre hub is 17mm/46.45mm. Given the NDS will be laced radial heads out the tension balance will be 80% not huge for this lacing pattern but high enough. The NDS bracing angle will be just over 9 degrees which means a very stiff wheel indeed.

The rims I will use a Pacenti SL23 with the rear being the centre drilled version curtosy of BHS- I am glad they have them.
All in all I am looking forward to doing these. These are hubs for life quite literally.



Final wheelset weight with CX-rays will be 1540g ish which is light enough for me.

[Svetty]

What happened to the Gigantex rim plan?

[bm0p700f]

Well I have carbon clincher wheels I am very happy with so I figured if I build another carbon wheel set even a tubular one I will have another carbon wheelset. what I do not have is semi aero alloy rimmed wheelset for those wet days. What I don't like about my carbon wheels is the braking in the wet - I have tried group rides when it is damp with them and it was scary. I would not want to race in those conditions with these wheels. Hence alloy clincher for wet race days and I will have a set of wheels to use on this bike when I am not racing. I would use a tubular rim if there was a nice light one in 20h and 24H drilling, and all I can think of is a kinlin TB25 or that BHS rim (probably another Kinlin) neither of which appeal as what I really want is an HED belgain C2 rim in those drillings which is not possible.

[bm0p700f]

Well it appear for 3x lacing the NDS flange needs to be rotated 15 degrees anticlockwise when looking at the NDS. Lesson learnt there.

I have used Pacenti SL23 rims now. I will do a tubular set another time.

However the wheels with 2x lacing DS work very well. I raced on them last night and my they feel good. The narrow (22mm) veloflex corsa's didn't though very sketchy through the corners and they are coming off. The wheels are incrediably stiff. Tension DS is 1100-1150N and NDS tension is around 800N. DS rear spokes silver sapim race/alloy nipples and other spokes silver sapim laser/alloy nipples.

Weight is 1590g so I could have built lighter but a couple of hundred grams extra does not slow me down
I am very happy with these.
Well it appear for 3x lacing the NDS flange needs to be rotated 15 degrees anticlockwise when looking at the NDS. Lesson learnt there.

[kavitator]

you need better pictures! nice hubs

So geometry for 2:1 is the best for rear wheel - 3x on DS and radial on NDS with flange far outside.
if you go even more far out with NDS flange you still get tension around 50kg - or more if you build with carbone rims which handle higher tension
Problem will be i think with spoke bend at rim - need to be special drilling for 2:1 lacing and nipple" bed" inside rim that allow to adjust spoke to its angle

[bm0p700f]

3x is best. The next version of the hubs will be for 3x lacing need to send a drawing to royce first though, they simply glued the flange in place for 2x i.e I assumed they would make it for 3x they assumed I would lace 2x - assumptions you were that leads.

The spoke angle into the rim is what stopped me pushing the NDS flange further out. If I do get the hubs made with alloy flanges it will be a lot cheaper I will have to get carbon rims drilled for the very high bracing angles I want. 50mm spacing for the NDS flange is what I want with a 17.8mm DS spacing and 131 OLD. That would be a special wheelset.

As I wanted to use off the shelf rims I limited myself in the hubs, next time limits off. I am still not comfortable with high tensions on carbon rims. All the ones I get have a tension limit of 130kgf. When I see some quoted with tension limits of 320kgf I just think what nipple will let you get close to that and will my wrists and fingers take it. Also I do not believe those tension limits maybe I am too cynical.

Better pictures will mean some one else taking them. I can build a wheel I am a crap photographer.

[Stolichnaya]

Are you using small washers at the spoke head on that build? If yes, I have not seen this done before. May I ask for what purpose?

[kavitator]

looks like sapim brass washers.

better look and less chance to get broken spoke
on hubs with larger holes or holes for flat spokes iam using them

on picture looks like Royce has thinner flanges than classic? and from that need for spoke washers

[bm0p700f]

Flanges are 3mm thick exactly which is and it would be embrassing to say the least for me to get a broken spoke one day that I could have avoided. So washer them I did. Sapim brass Kavitor you have a keen eye!

[Stefano]

I would kill for hubs like that. Royce has always been a halo item for me haha. Funniest thing is that they're so special I'd feel guilty building them into anything less than an ax or Enve or something...

[bm0p700f]

I know what you mean, I wanted to ENVE tubular 1.45 tubular rims but I spent all the money on hubs so have had to settle for Pacenti's. When I wear the rims out I will hopefully be richer.

[peted76]

bm0p700f - how are you getting on with these wheels? I was looking at Royce hubs (my dad lives a few mins down the road from them).
Beautiful hubs, could I ask the price?