Enve 3.4 clincher vs. Pacenti SL23: ride quality difference?

[Lugan]

Hello - My favorite alloy clinchers are Pacenti SL23 rims mated to White Industries T11 hubs and CX-Ray spokes. I use Conti 4000S 23c and standard butyl tubes. The ride is responsive but very smooth - the best clinchers I've ever ridden.

I just purchased a NOS Merckx Team SC frameset and will build it up this month. This is my second Team SC, and I know the ride can be stiff and transmit some road buzz (though less than most alloy frames). My default wheelset choice would be to use the same Pacenti-WI as above. But the Enve 3.4 clinchers are tempting. I am an ex-Cat 2, but that was a long time ago and I won't be racing and don't care much about the minimal aero advantages the 3.4s might offer. I do care about stiffness, durability and ride quality (feel). Based on searches here on WW and elsewhere, I'm pretty sure I'll get stiffness and durability from the 3.4s.

But what about ride quality...feel? Will the 3.4s feel different than my wide alloy rims (both are similarly wide, which contributes to the feel)? Will they be, I'm hoping, significantly damper feeling, or is this another case where buying the 3.4s is largely for bling factor considering I don't race any longer? I'm asking because I used to race Zipp 404 tubulars and they did have a damper and IMO better feel than the alloy wheels of that era (roughly 1999-2004), but this is a different era and for starters alloy rims I'd use are wider, tires a bit better, and air pressure a bit lower.

Thanks for your help!

[eric]

It's going to be heresy to some people but as far as I am concerned, when set up with the same tires at the same pressure all rims ride pretty much the same. I've had a few soft riding wheels which turned out to have low spoke tension. And my deep section carbon rim wheels ride just a tiny bit rougher than aluminium rim wheels. But the difference is small. Really small. Wide, narrow, deep section or shallow, pretty much the same.

To beleive claims of major differences I'd need to see a blind study where the rider did not know what the rims are. I think that a lot of people beleive that carbon automatically makes the ride better, and of course wheels that cost a lot of money must be better. So their expectations and feelings color their perception.

[Lugan]

Thanks Eric, that's what I suspect too. I think wide rims, great tires, and the correct air pressure probably influence ride quality most. But when you say your wheels ride softer, I assume you mean big hits and maybe little bumps like seams in the road. What about high-frequency "buzz" e.g from chip seal roads? Would 3.4s dampen that better than SL23 rims (all else equal)?

[Tricky1]

I find my aluminum clinchers more comfortable than my carbon wheels. I have the same hubs and spokes with my carbon wheels as you have on your Pacenti's, but I feel the ride is harsher and prefer the aluminum's ride in comparison. The improved braking performance and pad life are welcome too. You have a decent wheel set, if aero qualities aren't a big concern I think your current wheels are a good choice.

[spdntrxi]

I prefer the carbon ride to my Al wheels... but I think it's mostly the tires and air pressure that can really make a difference. I'm fair weather rider so far.. so the braking on the carbon has not bothered me. Only negative is on really windy days, I get blown around on my carbon wheels.. and I'm not light @ 180lbs.

[Lugan]

Are you guys riding Enve 3.4 clinchers or something else?

[eric]

Would 3.4s dampen [high frequency buzz] better than SL23 rims?

That has not been my experience with Reynolds and a couple different model FarSports carbon clinchers. They're pretty much all the same with the carbon rims being very slighly rougher riding, mostly on larger stuff. I expect it's due to the rims being even stiffer than aluminium rims due to their larger cross section.

[spdntrxi]

I use Enve 3.4 my Al rims are old skinny Mavic Krysium ES Anniversary

[makoti]

Interesting. Well, to me. I have a set of Enve's. I want a set of the Pacenti's you have. Same build.
I really like the Enve's. First time on carbon (bike or wheels, and they are on a new carbon bike so that may skew this), but they are very smooth. I haven't been on chipseal, but some of the roads around here are beat up & they handle it well. No trouble in moderate wind, but really windy will get your attention. I didn't think I'd care about the aero much, either, but I really notice it. If something happened to these wheels, I'd get new ones.
The only reason I want your wheels is I have been doing a fair amount of hills & the braking is not something that I am really comfortable with. For most stuff, it's fine, but I would hate to come down the side of a mountain in the wet on these.
So you really like your setup? WI t11 hubs? Like them? And, since this is WW, any idea of about what the weigh? What do you run them at? I run the Enves at about 100, but have run 90psi happily.

[AndreLM]

Wheelbuilder.com lists 92g for the front and 251g for the rear hub.

I just got an assembled set from them (24/28, WI T11, Pacenti SL23, Sapim CX-Ray). Weight includes tubeless rim tape and valve:

[Lugan]

Thanks Andre for the weights, and thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Makoti - The hubs are a bit heavy, but then again, that may be why they are durable. I personally don't care that much about weight except at the outer circumference of a wheel and maybe my shoes and pedals. If I wanted to lose static weight, it would be off my body. Speaking of which, I'm 6'0", weigh 180#, and got the SL23-T11 wheels from Roland (Zen Cyclery) with 20-28 spokes about 9 months ago. I like them a lot. They are still true, round, and the hubs function flawlessly w/o any adjustments to date. As mentioned in my opening post, they are stiff and responsive, but I think the wide rims and nice tires make them super plush too. Since point of view is important, I'll add that my most recent comparisons are Ligero A (Troy's 2nd gen hubs on XR-300 rims with his proprietary ceramic coating), DA 7900 C50 clinchers (great wheels all around), and Ksyrium SL2s from probably 2004 (creak, creak, creak).

[bm0p700f]

I am with eric. I cannot tell the difference in ride between any of my wheels. The difference come when I fit different tyres and I run different pressures. Tubs feel more comfortable though than the open tubular version of the same tyre but obviously the rim is different (but I have ruled that out). Physics is against those that thick the rim makes a difference and that carbon transmits more buzz. Being a composite material sound is actually adbosrbed buy carbon fibre more than it would be in aluminium and steel. I mean people claim carbon seat post reduce road buzz and in the next sentence my carbon wheels give road buzz go figure hey.

[r_mutt]

I can feel a big difference between my alu wheels and my carbon clinchers. Although the CC are much stiffer, they mute the sensations off of the usual road buzz- in a good way. This is coming from 4 years riding Enve 65 and Enve 67 and Campagnolo wheels.