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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 60
OK, I am curious as to why some cycling aficionados hold stock Zipp and DT Swiss hubs in such low regard? And for my next custom build, what's a better lightweight road hub and why?

Thanks!
Chris


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:34 am 
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DT Swiss are overpriced IMHO and the flange geometry is less than ideal. I will say they are durable IME. Zipp has just had lots of problems over the years, sold a bunch of units, so created a lot of angst out here. They also tend to go a bit far with the marketing hype which turns a lot of us off, myself included. There are better options by far. So how much you gonna ride these wheels? Are the daily drivers? Are you fat? What's your rim selection? Those are important considerations too.

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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:34 am 
  • 0.20 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 1609 components by DT Swiss


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:13 am 
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Location: the Netherlands
You can't go wrong with the DT240S but the DT190 and 180 indeed are a waist of money and not that durable. Just to name Zipp hubs in one sentence with the DT's don't do justice to the last. Until today zipp still has to prove to built a reliable hub and personally I gave up on a firm that every year screams to found the way to a reliable product and again and again prove they where wrong.

The main reason for chosing DT is the ease of changing between Campy an Shimano Freehubs and the fact that most bikeshops (the good ones that is) are able to service them but they aren't perfect (bearings could be better quality and flanges as said are narrow).
Imho. the best hubs on the market come from Campanolo (record) but they're not very lightweight and don't come in lower spoke numbers (unless you find some of their system wheel hubs for a rebuilt).
The rest all have their pro's and cons and it all all depends on your preferences to determine which is most important to you.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:21 pm 
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TwiggyTN wrote:
DT Swiss are overpriced IMHO and the flange geometry is less than ideal. I will say they are durable IME. Zipp has just had lots of problems over the years, sold a bunch of units, so created a lot of angst out here. They also tend to go a bit far with the marketing hype which turns a lot of us off, myself included. There are better options by far. So how much you gonna ride these wheels? Are the daily drivers? Are you fat? What's your rim selection? Those are important considerations too.

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Fair question:
Right now I have a set of Bontrager Aeolus 3 D3 tubulars with their proprietary DT 240s and a set of stock Zipp 303 tubulars. I'm 5"7' and weigh 135 so I'm not hard on wheels and I don't race anymore so Im looking for the best set of everyday, all-purpose tubulars.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:33 pm 
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The worst part is that both of these products have changed.

In Zipp's case, their stock hubs have had massive overhaul. They're no place near the older designs.

But it's the internet, so we keep rehashing old info over and over again, regardless of it's accuracy (and many times by people with no first hand knowledge, armed only with cut-and-paste regurgitation ability)... And bashing requires virtually ZERO real info...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Record hubs are 343g for a pair when did that become heavy? If Campagnolo did them in 20H, 24H and 28H drillings I probably would only use these in builds they are that good. DT Swiss 240 hubs are quite good but they need to be coupled with a stiff rim for a low spoke count on the rear or a higher spoke count. Get it right and you have a very nice wheelset. I have done a few builds with them and they have all turned out well and the bearings are very durable. The freehub mechanism is best on the market and if you are in the MTB market the 240 XC hub is simply sublime apart from the price.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:58 pm 
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Not sure what generation Zipp hubs you have, but my 2011 Zipp hubs were in need of preload adjustment every few rides and always made bearing noise to some degree, but my 2013 303 were quite reliable. I understand the 2014 hub redesign has addressed many issues they older hubs had. As for the rims, they've been great. I rebuilt my wheelset with the older Zipp hubs and replaced them with White Industries hubs. I really enjoy them now.

I did recently buy some Campy wheels and agree with what's been said here. They are smooth, quiet and spin up to speed so well. Great everyday wheels, especially comfy when using them tubeless.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:20 am 
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CharlesM wrote:
In Zipp's case, their stock hubs have had massive overhaul. They're no place near the older designs.

But it's the internet, so we keep rehashing old info over and over again, regardless of it's accuracy (and many times by people with no first hand knowledge, armed only with cut-and-paste regurgitation ability)... And bashing requires virtually ZERO real info...

In fairness, we've heard the "hubs have been improved" line every year.

And every year, up until the 2014 models (which I've not tried) they're still miles behind DT240s. Which (as mentioned) aren't 'world beaters' themselves. Terrific 'middle of the road' hubs whose shortcomings are still miles less severe than those hampering Zipp.


Then frustration is that the 404 Firecrest carbon clincher is one hell of a rim. Damn it's fast to race on! Only my present ideal set up would be with it laced to a DT240 hub...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:22 am 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
Terrific 'middle of the road' hubs whose shortcomings are miles less severe than those hampering Zipp.


Were there issues other than narrow drive side spacing on the 10 speed and earlier models of DT Swiss 240? I wouldn't have considered them for a build before but now with 11 speed those issues are gone (edit: more like playing field levelled), I will build my next 11 speed build with DT Swiss.


Last edited by 54x11 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:41 am 
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Location: the Netherlands
Quote:
The worst part is that both of these products have changed.

In Zipp's case, their stock hubs have had massive overhaul. They're no place near the older designs.


I'm always interested in new stuff and willing to test if things really have improved.
In Zipp's case I lost a bit of hope since with every new design they claim to have solved all the older quality issues and every time it comes out they haven't.
I think their rims finally become solid and do what Zipp claims them to do. With the hubs and complete wheelsets I refuse to give them any undeserved credits until they prove otherwise in real life use (not just by testing for a short period and then returning or selling on).
I service two 2013 303 firecrest clincher wheelsets and one 404. The only wheelset (303) that came good out of the box is ridden by a very light rider and only has the play issue on a regular basis.
The two other sets didn't came true out of the box and have to be serviced on a very regular basis (truing and play issues).
Have no experience with the 2014 version and glad to hear how they age.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:36 pm 
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I have cracked a few 240's (including one where a good portion of the flange blew off). I'm not heavy, so that shouldn't be a problem. Personally, if you can build your wheel with 'factory' (Campagnolo or Shimano) hubs, I would recommend that, instead.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:29 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
I have had a fairly new DT 240 rear hub have 2 spokes pull a chunk out the DS flange, but I also have have a pair of 12 year old DT 240 Hugi's that have been extremely reliable, and are on their 3rd set of rims.

I have also got a set of 2008 Zipp 404 clinchers, that have been trouble free, however the freewheel pawls need regular lubricating, and the seals don't keep much water out. I would rate these as fairly high maintenance, specially in comparison to the DT 240s that are fit and forget. I would also not regularly use them in wet weather. I have had no reliability issues to date, and I have used these to race on and the last 2 summers as training wheels as I now use Edge or FAst Forward Tubulars as race wheels, both on DT 240 hubs.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Woah news to me about cracking DT 240 flanges. I always felt my 240s were bomb proof. Good to know though I guess. Are you guys saying it's the newer models?

I have a set of the factory built zipp 404 tubs 2013 and they are amazing. I serviced the hubs with the proper grease for each part once so far including the bearings, it's super easy. Setting proper preload is not hard either, you just have to do it with the wheel in the dropouts. I have about 10,000km on them and they are still perfect. Gluing on some FMB comp cx tires next rainy spell we get.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:33 pm 
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It is the NDS rear flange spacing that is short at 33mm not the DS flange spacing. Having such a low NDS bracing angle means a stiff rim, more spoke or thicker spokes must be used to compensate. That is the only drawback with these hubs. Flanges have been known to crack but hey they are light hubs and some builders will over tension the DS rear to bring up the NDS tension this is not a good plan. The limit for the flanges is around 1200N I think anything more risks fatigue failure and that goes for most hubs. I bet that is the main cause of flange failure.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:26 pm 
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Another common mistake building DT 240 hubs is using a radial pattern. The rear hubs aren't designed for it. Both sides should have a crossed pattern.

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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:26 pm 
  • 0.20 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 1609 components by DT Swiss


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