The wheelbuilding thread

[jo.k]

Thanks for your replies. I neither have a truing stand nor a tensiometer, and doing the lacing myself was suggested by the builder to save some time, as he could fit it in in-between and do it sooner. It was also his suggestion to source the spokes and nipples and deliver the laced wheels to him for truing and tensioning.

[jo.k]

I might be a bit daft, but as you mention the polyax nipple washers add 1.5mm in total to the ERD, does this in effect mean that if I use the manufacturer's ERD of 559mm and add 1.5mm and then input a total ERD of 560.5 mm in a spoke length calculator to calculate the spoke lengths?

I have technical drawings of the BHS hubs. I assume PCD = pitch circle diameter = hub flange diameter?

Thanks again for any replies.

[pushstart]

Yes, that is correct. In practice having spokes within 2mm shouldn't be a problem so adding the 1.5mm yo ERD is probably not absolutely required, but may as well. But don't use mfr ERD without measuring yourself. Very likely to be off -- probably especially with these carbon rims.

Flange diameter is not PCD, since the holes will be offset inside the overall flange diameter. Use PCD when calculating spoke length.

[bm0p700f]

Sometimes flange diameter is used for PCD even when it is not. If doubt ask the seller.

[F45]

Nevermind.

[eric]

I've posted before about building wheels 1x heads in on the DS to increase bracing angle. I think I am done with that experiment:



This happened today during a double century, causing a DNF. There's 6 more cracks around the flange. I used this wheel last year and this year as the training set for my main bike. It probably had roughly 8000-10000 miles on it. I'm going back to 3x DS and 2x NDS (3x since these are 28h).
I'd rather break an NDS spoke periodically as its possible to ride with that (with some field truing, for which I carry a tiny emergency spoke wrench).

Hub is a BHS SL211.

[bm0p700f]

I was always a bit skeptical about 1x heads in pattern long term as I am with all heads out radial patterns on the front or rear. Hub failure is not funny. I presume the tension you used was sensible 1200N or so. Thanks for posting not that I was ever tempted.

[djay001]

I've posted before about building wheels 1x heads in on the DS to increase bracing angle. I think I am done with that experiment:

This happened today during a double century, causing a DNF. There's 6 more cracks around the flange. I used this wheel last year and this year as the training set for my main bike. It probably had roughly 8000-10000 miles on it. I'm going back to 3x DS and 2x NDS (3x since these are 28h).
I'd rather break an NDS spoke periodically as its possible to ride with that (with some field truing, for which I carry a tiny emergency spoke wrench).

Hub is a BHS SL211.

Oh shit, i wish you are ok.

Thanks to share this, i was also temped to try this.
Also, can you speak about the bearing durability of the SL211, did you change these often? And for the the freehub body, have you changed it?

[eric]

I was not in any danger. The worst thing that could have happened would have been the wheel going out of true suddenly on a descent, which would probably not locked the wheel just put on the brakes. When the flange let go it was just like breaking a spoke, and that's no problem. I'm used to it.

I've been using the SL211s since BHS started (3 years ago?) and have been beating them up pretty hard. I think I have had one bearing get a little rough, and it was not difficult to replace. The freehub bodies seem to be very durable for aluminium freehubs. They get gouged much less than other alu freehubs I have used. The SL210 has one slightly larger bearing (two 6903 and two 6803 vs one 6903 and three 6803) and slightly better DS flange spacing. I'm going to use that on the wheel to replace this one.

On a couple SL211s I have had the axle end caps come unscrewed. It causes a squeak and sometimes a slight amount of play at wheel. I've used loctite (#242) to keep them in place.

[bm0p700f]

Eric have you tried building a stiffer wheel if spoke breakage is a big problem. what rims do you use? Maybe a higher spoke count or thicker spoke. Spoke breakage is no fun.

[Zen Cyclery]

1x stress hub flanges in similar manner to radial seeing as that tiny cross doesn't really cause tension to cancel each other out. I'd bet that if that wheel was laced 2x the hub flange failure wouldn't have happened.

[eric]

bm0p700f- xr270s, 20f, 28r. Lasers with Race on the DS. I'm only 145 lbs but something about my pedaling style, plus standing a lot on climbs, doing lots of climbing and lots of steep climbs gives my rear wheels a hard life.

That's why I decided to build wheels again, to figure out what can live the longest under me. This wheel made it about a year and a half which is better than many built by the LBS or factory.

Zen- you're right about the 2x. That's why I am calling an end to my 1x DS experiments.

The replacement is going to be 2x all around using BHS's OC445 offset XR270 clone. According to spokecalc it changes the NDS tension from 47% to 57% of DS.

[bm0p700f]

I would use the Kinlin XC-279 for you Eric 20F/28R it really is much stiffer than the XR-270 and spoke breakages will become less frequent. The Hplus Archetype is another good rim but not as stiff as the XC-279 but stiffer than the XR-270.

I suspect a stiffer rim will do more to help spoke life than an offset rim.

[djay001]

I was not in any danger. The worst thing that could have happened would have been the wheel going out of true suddenly on a descent, which would probably not locked the wheel just put on the brakes. When the flange let go it was just like breaking a spoke, and that's no problem. I'm used to it.

I've been using the SL211s since BHS started (3 years ago?) and have been beating them up pretty hard. I think I have had one bearing get a little rough, and it was not difficult to replace. The freehub bodies seem to be very durable for aluminium freehubs. They get gouged much less than other alu freehubs I have used. The SL210 has one slightly larger bearing (two 6903 and two 6803 vs one 6903 and three 6803) and slightly better DS flange spacing. I'm going to use that on the wheel to replace this one.

On a couple SL211s I have had the axle end caps come unscrewed. It causes a squeak and sometimes a slight amount of play at wheel. I've used loctite (#242) to keep them in place.

So, you change one bearing and you never change the freehub body after 8000-10000 miles on it. That's over what i was expeting from these hub. Thanks for the info.

[mambo]

Hi guys perhaps you can help me sort the wheat from the chaff.

I just posted this on the road bike review forum but thought I would try and double my options!

I am in the process of ordering two sets of wheels as per this thread:

Tokyo Wheel - Epic 60 - Carbon Clincher Wheelset - Recent Purchase

Whether they end up being Tokyowheels or not, I am going to order a tubular wheelset built around DT240 hubs for training as I can get these hubs serviced easily. I want to build an almost identical wheelset (for easy swapping out) but with lighter hubs.

The build would be based around a 38mm front and 50mm rear rim with cx ray spokes.

My frame is being painted Lamborghini pearl orange so I originally thought orange hubs - two obvious choices Chris King R45's and Tune Mig 70-Mag 170's. I eventually decided on Tune Mig-Mag's as they are lighter, I won't have to spend $180 on a proprietary tool to service them as with the CK hubs. I live in an area that does not have a really knowledgeable technician so final hub choice would have to be fairly easy to maintain and service. It seems Tune now have problems with supplying the rear hubs and the issues may take 6 months to resolve. Nobody seems to have the orange hubs in stock at the moment. The CK hubs don't provide much in the way of weight savings over the DT 240's either and I have heard some mention of increased drag due to the design.

Anyway, my wheel builder mentioned that orange hubs might look wrong if they do not exactly match the frame colour and has recommended black. Again, his distributor doesn't have the Tune pairing in black in stock either (Fairwheel) so I am stumped. What other light, reliable easy to maintain and service alternatives are there out there. (I can't do Carbon TI as they don't do Campagnolo and they are re-designing a new model to be released in 6 months. Alchemy also don't have Campagnolo.)

I am considering an Extralite SL2 and SLX pairing but wonder at the longevity of these. Pehaps you guys can help.

The wheels will be used for about 6 months a year for weekend warrior burn outs and the odd race so they will average about 6,000km a year. I weigh 65 to 70kg.

So to sum it up. I am looking for the following:
A hub in the Tune Mig 70 Mag 170 weight range
Just about bomb proof
Easy to service and maintain without specialist tools
If it looks nice even better.

Or do I just suck up the extra weight and go the Chis King route.

Any suggestions would be welcome!