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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:50 am
Posts: 3
I’m undertaking a product design project at Uni, and running through the market research phase at present. I could really do with your help if you could spare 5min?

My elected topic is a new all carbon fibre 700c wheel. Why all carbon fibre? a) because of a personal interest in CF, b) it narrows the products in the market I have to consider – making my project more manageable.

I’ve tried to make the questionnaire simple to answer to attract as many responses as possible, however, please feel free to include any additional comments as you see fit.

Some of the question may seem a little ambiguous, but it’s difficult to be relative or objective when not everyone has, or have tried the same baseline hardware.

Please use the following link for the survey:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qMm2hk ... c/viewform

I look forward to seeing peoples views!

Thanks for you time and Help
A  


Last edited by ArthurP on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:12 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 209
Where's the link to the survey? This is 2014, even in PD (Product Design) :D

_________________
Carbon is real.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 am
Posts: 372
Q1 should have a mention of safety de-lamination due to heat or braking performance especially when wet. Most people I speak with these are the major concerns of full carbon wheels especially with clinchers.

Madfibers are not an all carbon wheel if you did not know.

Also, Google Drive is a great way to create and track surveys if you don't know already. I've used it many times and it's probably the best free option for surveys. If you need help let me know!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:50 am
Posts: 3
Hi Bambertodd, Martin,

Thanks for you feedback. I've included a link to the survey below.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qMm2hk ... c/viewform

Bambertodd, good point RE braking. The de-lamination issue, this is a failure condition, therefore assumed highly undesirable by the consumer. Also, I thought the Clincher Madfibre wheels had an Alu inner rim, but the tubulars were all carbon?...

Thanks again for your feed back, and the offer of help with the surveys.

A


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:47 am 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5089
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
bombertodd wrote:
Madfibers are not an all carbon wheel if you did not know.
I did not know. Please explain which parts of the wheel (other than hub) are not carbon fiber, and whether that applies to clinchers or tubulars.

:smartass: :smartass: The survey has an especially glaring omission, given that this is Weight Weenies, namely, not listing (light) weight as an attribute to be rated. :smartass: :smartass:

:smartass: :smartass: :noidea: Edit: In response to deltree: Senior moment. :noidea: :smartass: :smartass:


Last edited by HammerTime2 on Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:21 pm
Posts: 166
Location: London, UK
I know that the clincher version has an alloy rim bed.

http://cdn.velonews.competitor.com/file ... iber4.jpeg

Also, the very first question in the survey is "low mass".


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 am
Posts: 372
I took the survey. Would you like me to share this with my bike club for more responses? I'm not sure who your specific sample is.


Last edited by bombertodd on Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am
Posts: 77
Are you looking to lay up some rims? If so I'm doing something similar for fun. I've got the molds designed but am a bit stuck on FEA of composites.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:50 am
Posts: 3
Hi all, thanks for your feed back, and to those who have taken the survey so-far.

RE extent of carbon fiber in the construction - I think I removed some critical information during editing... oops!

The genre, was suppose to be 'full carbon', i.e. rim (fairing and tire bed), spokes and some large proportion of the hub...

I'll add this detail to the survey after I'm done here - sorry.


- Deltree, please feel free to share, but don't make work for yourself - I'm getting enough reply's already.

- Cajer, FEA is useless unless you've got some specific material data to use in your model (i.e. to satisfy some of your boundary conditions). Also, don't underestimate the complexity of the required model. Highly orthotropic materials stacked in multiple orientations take some very particular analysis (and software to make it viable). You would be far better placed to make prototypes and conduct validation tests and iterate the design. You would have to destructively test prototypes to validate your model anyway. hope that helps...

Cheers,

A


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:33 am
Posts: 42
Filled it out. Answered Rim brake, but honestly, disc would make more sense. Problem is I'd have to convert the stable. Too costly.


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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:22 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I took a look.

A few observations:

- It's unclear what you're planning to do. Are you writing a paper on a hypothetical product design process, or do you expect to have to build something at some point? It would be useful if you could post a project outline or similar. My concern is that you may be biting off more than you can chew if you actually need to build a rideable wheel meeting your design specification - this would be a serious engineering project in its own right.

- You've not asked anything about the user (type of riding, budget, weight, experience, number of wheels, campy / shimano...). Budget is always important.

- You've not asked how the person plans to use the wheel. This would help you to segment the market, since a student cyclo cross racer may have very different needs and priorities to a middle-aged lawyer who obsessively weighs his bike and barely rides it. To be successful your wheel design needs to offer the best proposition to someone. You don't want to design a product which only "old people, blind people and stupid people*" will buy.

- The survey focuses very much on tangible engineering factors. Things like brand and warranty are also important.

- The way in which you've asked the questions allows people to build an impossible wish-list (beautiful, low weight, cheap, bombproof). You could use a conjoint survey design for instance to force people to trade off attributes.

- I'm not sure what insight you gain from the fact that I prefer Mavic CCUs over other carbon wheels. If you've not done so already it's a good idea to work out what insights you need to design the product, write down clear hypotheses for what you think the answer is, then design questions to allow you to prove or disprove each hypothesis. This also makes the end analysis much easier.


* Actual response to a focus group discussion conducted by my wife. Needless to say, the client watching the discussion from behind a 2-way mirror was not impressed.


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