The wheelbuilding thread

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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mattyNor
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:18 pm

by mattyNor

Hey all, I'm building up a carbon track wheelset and I'm wondering if I should use nipple washers. Plan is 28h DA7600 laced 3x to Fast Forward F6C-C

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Farro4049
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Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:30 am

by Farro4049

Cals wrote:hi guys, trying to build a new set of wheels and thought this is the place to ask

am running a 6:18 hub /rear 24h rims and the wheelbuilder suggested that i go with a 3 cross on DS and radial on DS
was wanting to go 2 cross initially however the builder highly recommend a 3 cross,

will this work properly or would u guys have any opinion


I would agree with wheelbuilder, radially laced on NDS means that those spokes are essentially passengers. Three cross on DS will give you better triangulation (nipple - hub flange - axle) and therefore less twisting of the hub.

by Weenie


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eric
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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by eric

I think that to avoid the spokes interfering with each other a 24h hub has to be 2x unless perhaps it's got a larger flange than is normal for modern road hubs.

The rule I have seen is to divide the number of spokes by 9, which for 24h gives you 2.6 something.

Nipple washers: best to ask the rim manufacturer what they think. The Sapin poly-axe washers are pretty small and can fit down inside the 'point' of some aero rims. But if the rim is too narrow for the washer then the edges of the washer will bear on the rim and create areas of high stress.

Cals
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:30 pm

by Cals

thanks Farro4049

@eric, i'll be running UL190 on the rear, will that be adequate on a 3 cross

KLabs
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Cals wrote:hi guys, trying to build a new set of wheels and thought this is the place to ask

am running a 6:18 hub /rear 24h rims and the wheelbuilder suggested that i go with a 3 cross on DS and radial on DS
was wanting to go 2 cross initially however the builder highly recommend a 3 cross,

will this work properly or would u guys have any opinion

Hi Cals, you mean a 16:8 24H rear hub don't you? I yes, then 3xDS and 0xNDS is fine, as the wheelbuilder has suggested.
The 16H DS is equivalent to a 32H hub... 32/9=3.555555555...

The 0x(Radial)NDS will provide(help with) lateral stiffness and the 3xDS will provide good torque drive and elasticity...

If the UL190 rear hub is 16:8 then it is designed for 3xDS or 2xDS and 0xNDS, so all should be well :)

thanks :)

Orfitinho
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:25 pm

by Orfitinho

KLabs wrote:I yes, then 3xDS and 0xNDS is fine, as the wheelbuilder has suggested.
The 16H DS is equivalent to a 32H hub... 32/9=3.555555555...

The 0x(Radial)NDS will provide(help with) lateral stiffness and the 3xDS will provide good torque drive and elasticity...

Any disadvantages with 1xNDS?

eric
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
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by eric

No. Well, it's a little more complicated to build than radial, that's all.

You could lace all head in (or out) like radial if you want.

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mattyNor
Posts: 337
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by mattyNor

Thanks @eric, I asked and they said I don't need to. I'm wondering if I should do it anyways.

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steel515
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:03 am

by steel515

Do Shimano 105/Ultegra, White Industries rear hubs allow 1 cross? (DS) It is almost radial lacing. I don't want to damage hub.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

105 and ultegra are meant for 3x lacing only. damaging the hub though is unlikely with 1x lacing so long as the tension is not too high but it cannot be ruled out either. Personally 1x lacing on a 32H hub is not the best way to lace a wheel.

KLabs
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Orfitinho wrote:
KLabs wrote:If yes, then 3xDS and 0xNDS is fine, as the wheelbuilder has suggested.
The 16H DS is equivalent to a 32H hub... 32/9=3.555555555...

The 0x(Radial)NDS will provide(help with) lateral stiffness and the 3xDS will provide good torque drive and elasticity...

Any disadvantages with 1xNDS?

Hi Orfitinho, the real question is are there any advantages to using 1xNDS in a 16:8 configuration... that is a good question...

Let's Theorise, for a moment... the Spokes will be longer and probably closer to 2x as they leave the hub flange (due to the wide spoke spacing which could be good re slightly better torque control), but would mean slightly less Lateral Stiffness (probably ok) and slightly less spoke tension (headroom to play with here).

Also, because the 16:8 NDS flange is widely spaced and the NDS spoke tension that is nearly equal to DS, then the slight reduction in NDS spoke tension might be beneficial in a 1xNDS 16:8 arrangement, because the spoke is pulling/lying non-radially over the flange. What this means is that you might be able to lace the NDS spokes heads-in rather than heads-out, which means you can use a less widely spaced NDS hub and improve BS(Bracing Angle/Lateral Stiffness for that Hub) at the same time... just a thought which is interesting, and perhaps worth a little more thought and study/consideration :)

Sounds like it could be worth a try, although it makes the build slightly more complex :)

LittleSprinter
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:21 am

by LittleSprinter

Looking to build up a new set of all around road wheels that'll be used to both race and train on. Eventually will get around to a race carbon tubular set, but for now I'm set on an aluminum clincher.

I'm pretty hard set on using a set of Chris King R45s, so the debate is what rim, spokes and spoke count. I'm about 145 lbs and pretty much only doing crit styled races, so no climbing for racing.

My initial idea was:
- R45 front and rear hub
- H Plus Son Archetype (20 front 28 rear)
- CX Ray blades spokes

If anyone has any input or alternatives, that'd be great

bricky21
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm

by bricky21

If I was 145 lb. I'd be building a wheelset with 18/24 spokes. 28 spokes is overkill imo. If you want the extra stiffness us Sapim Race spokes on the drive side. That would lead me toward Pacenti SL23 rim because it's available with 18 holes.

eric
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by eric

It depends on the rider. If you do a lot of low gear standing on steep climbs you may need more spokes on the rear wheel.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

With the Pacenti SL23 I think 24 on the rear will be enough it is a very stiff rim but more spokes always out last fewer is the same rim hubs and spokes are used and the wheels built to the same standard. There always a cavet isn't there.

by Weenie


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