11 Speed Junior Gearing

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Briscoelab
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm

by Briscoelab

You could go for some 34x44 Wickwerks rings or the like. That's what a jr on our team did recently. Then she can run whatever cassette she gets and not worry. They shift great.

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

OP said they wanted a 52T front. I also have to use a 52 front - 4 hole ring (DA 9000). Also a 44 is an adjustment challenge for many fixed front derailleur mounts. Also smaller rings add to chain tension and frame flex - a more significant issue for stronger riders.

I found something that I think will work. Weird RECON 13-15-17-----25 11speed 110g solid alloy freewheel. I have (now) it at the machine shop to mill off the 13T and I'll put a steel Michie 14T in that spot. I don't know why it jumps from 15 to 17T. End result will be 125g 14-15-17---25.

Image

Image

by Weenie


Briscoelab
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm

by Briscoelab

Frame flex for running a smaller chainring? That makes no sense.

Also, I'd rather just run my RD limited to the 14T (or stay with 10 speed, where you can get Jr cassettes) at races than use a crappy aluminum cassette. Believe me... if you're strong enough to be worried about "frame flex" then you'll certainly break teeth off that cassette. They are notoriously poor on strength and durability, even as race day only setups.

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

Briscoelab wrote:Frame flex for running a smaller chainring? That makes no sense.
The chain stays and BB combo flex a lot. A front 44T puts about 20% more tension on a chain than a 52T in the same gear, which translates to compression on the drive side chain stay. As the Chain stay is usually bent, and somewhat thin - they are compressed rather easily. You can see the slack in the bottom of the chain where there is no derailleur such as on a track bike, or tandem sync chain. I changed to bigger rings on both track bike and tandem and there is a noticeable difference.

Briscoelab wrote:Also, I'd rather just run my RD limited to the 14T (or stay with 10 speed, where you can get Jr cassettes) at races than use a crappy aluminum cassette. Believe me... if you're strong enough to be worried about "frame flex" then you'll certainly break teeth off that cassette. They are notoriously poor on strength and durability, even as race day only setups.
There are at least 2 11-speed 14T 11 speed mfgs now - mentioned in this post. The RD blocked at 14T is not allowed in some competitions.

As to "crappy alloy" been using the pictured alloy 9sd for 10+ years. This new one is a different brand, but I'm willing to risk it.
Image

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

Missing the bike and I believe I can turn the 20g 14T into a 10g alloy one - we saved 100g from the DuraAce / Ultegra 10sp. Here is a 140g (with steel 14T) 11 speed Junior 14T freewheel.

As machined w/o the 14T
Image

All set - just missing the bike and skewers
Image

FWIW - Wheels getting new 25mm FMB custom rubber. Glue/latex free sidewalls, record tread. Predicting 220g 25mm silk tubular.
Last edited by Zoro on Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
simon
Resident Pro
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:34 am

by simon

i'd go the bbb route.they're stock in switzerland and at this pricepoint a good product(even more with the growing numbers of wheels you need for training,racing,mountain,aero and so on.)
the thing with sprockets digging into the freehub is not so bad,there are more horrible things than changing a freehub after 2 seasons(worst case...)

Bregnhoj
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:52 pm
Location: Vejle, Denmark

by Bregnhoj

Hi

Last year i raced for a danish U19 team who this year will run 11 speed Ultegra di2.

Miche has casette called 14-27 11 speed, what will fit on both Campagnolo and Shimano 11-speed hubs. It's heavy, but it solved all thier issues.
My bikes incl. De Rosa Superking and Cervelo R3
Twitter & Instagram - @mathiasbregnhoj

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

Bregnhoj wrote:Hi

Last year i raced for a danish U19 team who this year will run 11 speed Ultegra di2.

Miche has casette called 14-27 11 speed, what will fit on both Campagnolo and Shimano 11-speed hubs. It's heavy, but it solved all thier issues.
This is with the Miche cassette 14T on the end. Image

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

One Piece Steel - 14-25, skips 18T made by RECON.
http://1drv.ms/1j9owpJ

User avatar
LouisN
Posts: 2291
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

Ok.
Would like to know more about that one.
You know, the usual stuf.
Weight
shift quality.
Durability, etc...


Louis :)

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

LouisN wrote:Ok.
Would like to know more about that one.
You know, the usual stuf.
Weight
shift quality.
Durability, etc...


Louis :)

If you are not interested in a Junior 11spd FW - these numbers will seem high. If you are, you know they are very light.

Right now...it is the only one (as I have been told) and it will be used tomorrow for warm up, then we switch to the alloy modified version. There should be a bunch more of them in steel and then all alloy available in a few months. I cannot get a good answer on why the 18T is skipped. We speak different languages. I don't like it, but that is what it is right now. I have hunches, but know answers.

Anyway...
This is 200g-210g - my scale is good for +/-10g. It is the exact same as my 10spd Dura-Ace Ti / Ultegra combo.
My Michie SuperType 14-25 is all alloy, individual cogs around 190g
My Michie Steel - 14-25 individual cogs is near 400g
My RECON Alloy that I milled and added a 14T steel is < 140g. My son wants to race with this. We know there are risks.
I expect the future RECON alloy 14-25 to be about 120g.

All the above weights unverified of course.

I would not ever use anything but one piece if they are available in the specs needed. For the extra $50-$100 you save 50g-200g and pick up something much easier to work with.

Shift quality - my kid tells me they are fine / great. I drill down, but that is the best I can get. IMO this will wear in after 500 miles and be perfect. The alloy I did is picky in the indexing and the new RECON alloy I expect to be fine.

We got rid of our DA 9000 and have nothing to compare to and do Friction Facts weird stuff, so I can't really give you an accurate comparison.

User avatar
LouisN
Posts: 2291
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

Sorry, I forgot this thread was about 11 speed... :oops:

I'll keep on using 10 S for my daughters's setups. Easier to get junior stuff. And cheaper...

But I was curious about a light cassette, as it's nearly impossible to get in a 14-25 configuration.
I hear Miche has one (Supertype) but most users seem to say it's not very reliable.

One piece steel sounded very promising....heck i,d buy 4 of them right away if they can produce a sensibly durable 150-180 g 14-25 10S cassette.

200 g is still good for a junior cassette.

Sorry for the highjack...

Louis :)

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

LouisN wrote:Sorry, I forgot this thread was about 11 speed... :oops:

I'll keep on using 10 S for my daughters's setups. Easier to get junior stuff. And cheaper...

But I was curious about a light cassette, as it's nearly impossible to get in a 14-25 configuration.
I hear Miche has one (Supertype) but most users seem to say it's not very reliable.

One piece steel sounded very promising....heck i,d buy 4 of them right away if they can produce a sensibly durable 150-180 g 14-25 10S cassette.

200 g is still good for a junior cassette.

Sorry for the highjack...

Louis :)
I found an unexpected benefits of running something different.
At two recent races there was neutral support. One from Shimano, one from SRAM. In both cases their neutral stuff was not on par with our stuff. Also in both cases I was able to insert our wheels into support as we were running a configuration they did not have.

10spd cassette - I'm told will also work on an 11spd system.

Tartanian
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:36 pm

by Tartanian

I have to say there is a lot of bad info written about the Miche cassettes.

They are really solid and work great. 100s of top junior riders in the US are using them including the whole race team at the top junior club in the US per USA cycling, being Team Rokform of California.

http://www.tartanian.com/shop/

by Weenie


Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

LouisN wrote:Sorry, I forgot this thread was about 11 speed... :oops:

I'll keep on using 10 S for my daughters's setups. Easier to get junior stuff. And cheaper...

But I was curious about a light cassette, as it's nearly impossible to get in a 14-25 configuration.
I hear Miche has one (Supertype) but most users seem to say it's not very reliable.

One piece steel sounded very promising....heck i,d buy 4 of them right away if they can produce a sensibly durable 150-180 g 14-25 10S cassette.

200 g is still good for a junior cassette.

Sorry for the highjack...

Louis :)
Alloy 14-27 11spd guessing around 120g. I didn't see any reason to go 25T. I should have it in a few days. http://1drv.ms/YocZzo

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post