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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:54 pm
Posts: 206
Hello everyone.

Now, I am riding my Specialized Tarmac frame with 6800 groupset, KMC X11SL chain and Dura-Ace 9000 shifters.
There is an opportunity that I can switch to unused Sram Force 22 without paying.

I never tried Sram groupsets, so I want to try new Force22.

I believe it will be lighter but I also couldn't find the weight of all Force22. How light it is than Ultegra 6800?
I have 9000 shifters, which are around 60gr lighter than 6800. Also X11SL chain is ligther than Ultegra.

What you guys think?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:54 pm
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Location: Haines, AK - Temporarily
If you want to change because you want to run SRAM, go for it, but I don't think you're upgrading.

It sounds like change for the sake of change, and I wouldn't waste the time.


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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:37 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:26 pm 
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For all intents and purposes the two groupsets are a wash; fanboys of either manufacturer will tell you that theirs is better but, in the end, the differences are so minute that any argument is pointless.

I went with Force22 on my most recent build. I know that the complete group is a few hundred grams lighter than 6800. The rear action is not as smooth as 6800, but this is more of a SRAM vs. Shimano thing. I like the positive feedback from the SRAM mechanism. The FD is awesome, it's much better than the previous SRAM offering. The built in chain catcher is great and the Yaw technology really does make a difference.

I love Double Tap. There is a learning curve to it but the reach adjust and dedicated brake levers really works for me. The hood shapes are also great. You need to try both and see which feels more comfortable in your hands.

You may hear some issues knocking SRAMs build quality. From what I've gathered and read, most of the issues are with Rival and Apex and older Red. You can read anecdotes of tuners who have taken apart Force22 and Red22 shifters and were pretty jazzed on the build quality.

When comparing and contrasting these two groupsets it comes down to ergonomics. Which hoods fit your hands better? Double tap or Shimano? Smooth rear shifting or positive feedback?

I, personally, will only ride SRAM. . . until I can afford Record :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Location: London
I have both of those group sets. 6800>Force22

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Location: Mississippi
Dov wrote:
I have both of those group sets. 6800>Force22


You mean that 6800 weighs 300 grams more, right? Because it does.....this is weight weenies. Functionally both groups shift the (22) gears of the bicycle....all things being equal Force 22 weighs less. :noidea: :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Dov wrote:
I have both of those group sets. 6800>Force22


I'd be interested in your reasoning behind this statement. I feel that I argued the SRAM side of the argument; I'd like to hear a similar argument from the Shimano side of things. Note: I'm not trying to flame. but simply stating "x > y" without giving your reasons why isn't helpful to the OP.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Location: Chicago
I don't think the difference weight-wise will be as big as you think. Probably closer to 100g.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:47 am 
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For the following list:
Crankset/BB
Shifters
R. Derailleur
F. Derailleur
Brake calipers

Difference is 200g according to Competitive Cyclist.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:53 am 
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For a BSA BB the weight difference is less than 6g. Keep in mind VeloNews call 9000 "The Best Mechanical Group Ever Made" and 6800 is so so close to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:35 am 
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Edit: The Force 22 crank weight in my table is definitely wrong.

These are the best weights I could find for BSA BB, all confirmed from more than one source or taken from pics with scales. Where in doubt I tended to round up. I went with F22 for my 066 SL build and ordered the group yesterday.

This is for 11-32 cassettes and long rear derailleurs. In this config, you save a massive 270g. Savings for smaller cassettes and normal rear derailleur should not be much less as the savings are mostly in the brifters and crank.

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Last edited by Marin on Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:46 pm 
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johnnyscans wrote:
Dov wrote:
I have both of those group sets. 6800>Force22


I'd be interested in your reasoning behind this statement. I feel that I argued the SRAM side of the argument; I'd like to hear a similar argument from the Shimano side of things. Note: I'm not trying to flame. but simply stating "x > y" without giving your reasons why isn't helpful to the OP.


Ultimately, that's a pretty common argument in X vs Y gruppo arguments though.

For me, the speed of SRAM rear shifting and the reduced lever throw trumps Shimano every time.


The lighter weight and stealthier looks are also very nice :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:54 pm 
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My biggest concern about Sram was the quality (feel when I touch the hoods, look at the bike) and reliability. I think new groupsets are better than old so it will not be a problem.

I am really confused about weight comparisons.
My frame has BSA BB, so I need the GPX version of Sram.

If the difference is around 250gr, as mentioned before, that is awesome. It is worth to try. My bike weights 7800gramish with everything mounted (garmin etc) so having bike 7500gr will be awesome.
But if it is less than 100, I believe that keeping 6800 will be a better idea.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:58 am
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Location: Chicago
I helped a friend install a group recently and weighed everything. The crankset is pretty heavy. I don't know the actuals of a 6800 group but here are the weights for most of 22:

shifters 312 (156f/157r)
front derailleur 87
rear derailleur 166
crankset 717
bottom bracket 106
brakeset 286
chain 251 (full length)

He's using a Red cassette but I think a PG-1170 is around 240g.

Since you're using 9000 shifters already, the difference is not going to be large at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Location: Mississippi
I actually prefer the SRAM 22 hoods to the DA9k I had previously, but that is a personal preference.

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Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:32 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 1538
There is almost no difference in weight now. Especially if you are using the 9000 shifters. Your shimano setup might actually be lighter.

The new Force cranks are quite heavy, especially in GXP. The GXP bb is a tank, the new shimano bb is very light.


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