Tire suggestion for stans ztr alpha 340 rims

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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morrison
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:40 pm

by morrison

No issues at all with 340 + Bontrager R3

by Weenie


owt256
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:12 pm

by owt256

Today, I had two blowouts using Hutchinson Fusion 3 Kevlar Tube-type tires on my Stan's ZTR 340 wheels. They both occurred while I rode Levi's GranFondo. One was on a 20+ mph descent coming down the back side of the King Ridge climb. It was my front wheel and I was scared for sure. I was able to stop without crashing - learned some about steering with a front flat. The other blowout was my rear wheel on a climb.

Lesson learned: DO NOT PUT TUBE-TYPE ROAD TIRES ON STAN'S ZTR 340 WHEELS. EVER. Between my own experience and the many stories listed on the web, it's clear that there are enough blowout events to make any ZTR rim/tube-type tire combination highly risky. Frankly, why take the chance? Who needs a hospital stay?

I sent an email on this to Stan's. No reply. On their web site FAQ, they state:
"I have just bought a set of Alpha 340 road rims, and was wondering if it is okay to run them with regular tires and tubes?
The Alpha rims can be run with a standard clincher tire and a tube. Road tires that are labeled “Use only with hook bead rims” should not be used on the Alpha rims."

Stan is f*****g nuts to make a statement like this. None of my tires (Hutchinsons, Conti 4000S's, Conti GatorSkin's, have that kind of disclaimer on the tire.

And there are too many web stories of blowouts. Someone is gonna get really hurt or worse, get killed and a good attorney will then take Stan's down.

If you compare the ZTR rim to say an OpenPro rim, you can clearly see the different design and the significantly less aggressive 'hook' to retain the tire bead. To be clear: I think the wheels are high quality, but they need to be used as designed: only with tubeless road tires. I ordered some Hutchinson Fusion 3 Tubeless tires today.

Just sayin'.

kulivontot
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm

by kulivontot

What pressure owt? How much do you weigh?

Stoo
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Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 9:22 am
Location: Warwick, UK

by Stoo

I have a set of the ZTR 400's

Only a few weeks old.
Built with CX-Rays and 2014 Powertap F and G3 R hubs.

Fitted them with a set of 'used' 25mm GP4000S' tyres.

Around 100 miles after building, I had a front blowout.
I was literally setting off from a food stop when it went so low speed.

Fitted a new tube.
Blew immediately, in my hand.

Fitted another new tube, stayed up for another 350+ miles.

Front blowout AGAIN, on the drops, spriting, 30+mph.
Scary!! Managed to stop OK, JUST!

Fitted a new tube.
Blew immediately!! AGAIN

Another new tube, stayed up.

Removed at a later date to investigate.
No fault found.
Re-fitted! Guess what - blew immediately!

Removed GP4000S and fitted a Bonty R2, no problems thus far 200 miles in.

Hair pulling!!
'17 Giant Trinity Pro TT - DA9070 - Rotor 3D+ P2Max - Zipp 900T/HED Jet 9+
'16 Genesis Equilibrium - U6800 - FSA SRM - WH6800
'15 Cannondale Super Six Evo HM - DA9000- DA9000 SRM - CC40C
'13 Giant Trinity Composite - U6800 - QuarQ DZero

angrylegs
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 2:32 pm

by angrylegs

I ran a set of 340s for a couple seasons. Currently have the slightly beefier version. I've exclusively ridden Veloflex on them. Used to be called All Blacks, then Blacks. Currently run Corsa 23s. Never once a problem with this rim/tire combination. They are quite hard to get on, new, without a tire lever. I run them at 95-105 PSI and I am absolutely confident racing and training on them. I have no idea what everyone else is doing - and I don't doubt they are having problems - but with this combination I never have.

I've never given a second's thought to them, even after reading some of these reports. I've had various kinds of flats. It's a pain getting the tire off - even a used one sometimes. They're not going anywhere. That, however, is my experience with Veloflex. Vittoria All Weathers, which I run sometimes in the spring, do indeed fit a little looser. I raced one spring with them. No issues. I do prefer the Veloflex though.

I used to have velo plugs some years ago, but now I use two layers of yellow rim tape. I weigh between 68 and 72 kg (depends when you ask me and where I am in the season lol). I have run them as high as 115 PSI, but generally hang around 100 these days. Michelin A1 tubes.

mises
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Location: Unknown parameter

by mises

I'm curious - has anyone using red veloplugs had blowoff problems?

Stoo
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 9:22 am
Location: Warwick, UK

by Stoo

I suspect my issue is a weak sidewall on the GP4000S
'17 Giant Trinity Pro TT - DA9070 - Rotor 3D+ P2Max - Zipp 900T/HED Jet 9+
'16 Genesis Equilibrium - U6800 - FSA SRM - WH6800
'15 Cannondale Super Six Evo HM - DA9000- DA9000 SRM - CC40C
'13 Giant Trinity Composite - U6800 - QuarQ DZero

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WMW
in the industry
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Location: Ruidoso, NM

by WMW

mises wrote:I'm curious - has anyone using red veloplugs had blowoff problems?


According to Stan himself you need to use 2 layers of tape on the "bench" where the tire bead sits. Unlike normal hook bead rims, the tension in the tire bead is what actually keeps the tire on... or not. The tighter it is the better.
formerly rruff...

Stoo
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 9:22 am
Location: Warwick, UK

by Stoo

SO after numerous more blowouts, I'm going tubeless.

Just far too dangerous.

Any Rec's for a decent all round tubeless tyre?
'17 Giant Trinity Pro TT - DA9070 - Rotor 3D+ P2Max - Zipp 900T/HED Jet 9+
'16 Genesis Equilibrium - U6800 - FSA SRM - WH6800
'15 Cannondale Super Six Evo HM - DA9000- DA9000 SRM - CC40C
'13 Giant Trinity Composite - U6800 - QuarQ DZero

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MajorMantra
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:38 pm

by MajorMantra

angrylegs wrote:I used to have velo plugs some years ago, but now I use two layers of yellow rim tape.


WMW wrote:According to Stan himself you need to use 2 layers of tape on the "bench" where the tire bead sits. Unlike normal hook bead rims, the tension in the tire bead is what actually keeps the tire on... or not. The tighter it is the better.



I know this is an old thread anyway, but I'm not sure if this has been raised before: it would be useful if people who've had blowouts could specify what rim tape they have. With a tubeless setup the layers of tape are integral to keeping the tyre on the rim, and it seems likely that they still are with tubes.

So, do those of you who've had blowouts have the recommended 2 layers of tape?

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jpac
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Location: portland, oregon

by jpac

another good thing to bring up would be the type of tires as well. Latex tires seem to height fairly quickly and could possibly cause blowouts.

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WMW
in the industry
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by WMW

Many have had blow-offs with two layers of Stan's tape as recommended.

My guess is that the kevlar beads are not strictly controlled because their strength is not critical with a normal hook bead. So sometimes they will stretch a lot and perhaps even tear internally when mounted on the Stan's rim. The rim design certainly stretches the bead more than it would on a non-tubeless rim. If they stretch so far that they tear, you aren't doing yourself any favors. Still, I would do the two layers regardless of the tire.
formerly rruff...

owt256
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:12 pm

by owt256

Update: In October of 2013, I posted my concerns about using tube-type tires with a Stan's ZTR 340 wheelset. This was based upon my own experience with multiple unexpected blowouts. Following installation of new Hutchinson Fusion 3 tubeless tires, I used the wheels for a 4-day racing camp, followed by a handful of early 2014 season Cat 4/5 road races. I had no problems with blow-outs on these outings. The training camp rides included several very fast, very long descents with lots of braking. I now trust the wheel/tire combination whereas before I didn't.

In answer to the question about rim tape and PSI for my wheels, the wheels came pre-taped with two layers of Stan's tape. Tire pressure has been 95 PSI for both tube-type and tubeless tires. I weigh between 150 and 154 lbs. depending on time of day and level of conditioning.

Stoo
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 9:22 am
Location: Warwick, UK

by Stoo

Same as owt256.

I've now installed Schwalbe Ultremo ZX Tubeless tyres and had zero problems over 1000miles later..
'17 Giant Trinity Pro TT - DA9070 - Rotor 3D+ P2Max - Zipp 900T/HED Jet 9+
'16 Genesis Equilibrium - U6800 - FSA SRM - WH6800
'15 Cannondale Super Six Evo HM - DA9000- DA9000 SRM - CC40C
'13 Giant Trinity Composite - U6800 - QuarQ DZero

TheKaiser
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

For all of you running 340s and finally installing actual tubeless tires after running regular tubed clinchers for a while, remember to check your spoke tension after mounting the new tires. You probably know this, but 340s are so light and have such an oversized bead seat that the compressive force of the stronger/tighter tubeless bead combined with the air pressure seems to lower the spoke tension way more than with other rims. There is some debate about just how much, but that is why I say check your tension to be sure.

by Weenie


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