Same old argument - like for like, you'll have to carry a clincher as well as a tube to compare with a spare tub.

Come on stop arguing, just tolerate and respect that people are different hence some prefer tubs. TOLERANCE AND RESPECT

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Less is more.

My spare tubbie is a 175 gram small profile nylon casing track tire. Folded up it's just a hair bigger and heavier than a pair of tire levers and a mountain bike tube (I know we're talking road bikes here....). At that weight and size I call it my "space saver spare" as it's not a bother at all and it rarely gets used.....still carrying the same one for the past 10 years and I only ride tubbies all spring, summer, and fall.

Hed Jet 4 FR a good compromise?

Carbon clinchers are for those who want something nicer, lighter or more aero but don't want to try tubulars for some reason.
Pros never ride carbon clinchers. That alone proves something...

Yeah ... that clinchers can blow off the rim on FAST descents.
I always used tubulars for the safety factor alone. Just ask any pro coach out there. They want their money guys safe!

Who really cares what they "look like".

Do you want high performance ... or just have "the look" so you can pose?

So my understanding is the latest carbon clinchers have progressed to a point where they no longer deform under heat however the tube itself is still susceptible to loosing its integrity under intense brake related heat. Which leads me to wonder why more manufacturers such as Zipp and Enve are not eliminating the weak point and developing tubeless rims.
With that being said, I am curious to see what comes of Easton aero 55s.

As said, the concern now is less of delamination but whether your TUBE can withstand the heat. HED did some tests on this and their consensus is that it's not the wheel that now has a problem, it's the tube/tyre interface.

I race, and lucky for me my shop loand us wheels. so when it's race season I borrow out the shop's bora 2s , Corima Aero +, or mavic R sys depending on the race. if I'm racing crits, I use my normal 30mm handbuilt training wheels.

If I had to buy my own carbon wheels, however, I'd buy tubulars. why would you buy something that would only be safe to use in certain situations when there's an alternative you can use in ALL situations? lots of people ( myself included) probably aren't skilled enough descenders to know how to ride carbon clinchers safely down a mountain pass. there aren't even mountains in my area but I want that option of being able to do so.

cost wise, tubular wheels are cheaper than carbon clinchers. and they puncture WAYYY less. true, tubulars ARE more expensive than clincher tyres, but lets face it: if you're riding carbon wheels on a road bike for training, the loose change you spend more on tubular tyures is the least of your problems.

This thread.
x infinity

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Exp001 || Other projects in the works.

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http://www.nicksquillari.com.au
The Gram
The Men of Steel

I'm curious. Has anyone commenting ever actually experienced said catastrophic failure due to descending on carcon clinchers? Lots of chatter 'bout how common it is, but living & riding in the Rockies for 20 years, I've never seen it happen.

Saw Beloki take a career ending header descending on tubies though... just sayin.

Well no, anyone experiencing said catastrophic failures is dead

Surely if someone died from this, there would be incident reports or news articles you can point to as proof positive that this happened, no?

Personally, I think there's a lot of BS'ing going on with this topic. People are committed to the choice they made for several reasons, be they familiarity or financial. It costs money to be wrong about something, so everyone here will defend their choice as being the best. That being said, the issue was pretty quiet until Levi's Gran Fondo banned carbon clinchers a couple of years ago. I think that forced the industry to act and improve the quality of the wheels, to the point that last year, there was no ban on their use on the ride (from the e-mails I received as a participant, nothing was said).

If the wheels were truly dangerous, I think that by now, some government, somewhere (be it US, UK, EU, etc.) would have banned their use, or at least, mandated a large warning label on them.

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Madone 9 http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143973

Crockett http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=130567

Madone 5, Madone 4, SpeedConcept, Cobia

I own a lot of Treks.

Not on carbon but Al.

Op starts by asking a loaded question implying there was a single opinion out there. People discover there ISN'T a consensus and begin calling each other twats. Massive trolling via tubs vs clinchers ensues.

I had a tire blow off an older Reynolds rim. On a very hot day, very steep road with many 10-15 mph switchbacks. I posted about it here but can't find it now. This road is extreme compared to what most people ride and I know it well so I can bomb down it.
The bead lifted off the rim and I heard it just before it blew, so I had a bit of warning and was just entering a corner so I stood it up and came to a stop. The tire came loose from the bead fibers but I was just around the corner from home so I could walk back.

That could have been caused by damaging the tire while mounting (like many CCs the Reynolds are friggen tight making mounting tires a chore).

I have also had a similar blowoff also on a very steep technical descent on an aluminium rim but caught it before it blew, so I could deflate the tire and reseat the bead. That could have been caused by those tires being rather loose on that wheel.

Wasn't it Indurain who would run a clincher front on mountain days because he was concerned about tubulars rolling off from braking heat? They're not immune.

I have both carbon clinchers and tubulars. A lot of the races I do have little to no support and for some if you're dropped you're not out of the race (massive amounts of climbing, so everyone is dropped). Being able to fix a flat quick and not lose too much time is a feature. I use carbon clinchers for those events. I use tubulars for short (under 1.5 hours) climbing races which have support and where a flat does mean you are out of the race, since they are my lightest wheels.

I think its important to understand the features and drawbacks to each system and run the one that works best for your situation.

Finally, someone with some basic common sense......

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Mosaic RS-1
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Cielo by Chris King Cross Racer
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134376