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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:
Blythe won nice races on higher bars when he was a Lotto rider!

That is a dramatic change of position.


I wonder why/when it changed? Being a track rider I'm sure he is used to putting out power being low and his role as a rider has changed. I'd love to see the hyper low/mega drop positions tunnel tested mainly to see if Gerard Vroomen's theory about riders increasing drag by lowering bars too much is true.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:30 pm 
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After skimming through the headlines on cyclingsnooze I am really struggling with who I find more irritating; David Walsh or Michelle Cound.

Walsh only writes about doping and the other negative stories in cycling while Cound comes across as a complete drama queen who will do anything for a piece of the limelight.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-delayed-in-paying-froomes-share-of-tour-win-bonus-says-cound


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Location: Northern Italy close to Gavia and Mortirolo
elviento wrote:
what's wrong with no using power data if the guy wins races?


Nothing at all but being sponsored by a PM selling company it sounds against (their) marketing. Kudos to him to show this clear opinion but then it'll be funny to find a youtube Garmin channel video with his praises to Vector(s) :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Posts: 560
Location: Switzerland
KWalker wrote:
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:
Blythe won nice races on higher bars when he was a Lotto rider!

That is a dramatic change of position.


I wonder why/when it changed? Being a track rider I'm sure he is used to putting out power being low and his role as a rider has changed. I'd love to see the hyper low/mega drop positions tunnel tested mainly to see if Gerard Vroomen's theory about riders increasing drag by lowering bars too much is true.



Vroomen's theory is just a story invented to justify Cervelo's decision to cover a larger frame size span (smallest to largest) without increasing the number of available sizes.
This causing the stack size jumps from size to size in the middle of the range to grow more than the size jump


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Willier wrote:
Canyon for Movistar :thumbup:

Image



I really like that colour scheme! :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:04 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
It doesn't satisfy internet pseudo-coaches that barely ride a bike and don't actually understand that people who are gifted can often be pretty successful with a variety of training modalities.


:lol: KWalker, not disappointing with a little zinger. (BTW, what is the definition of a pseudo-coach? It is a guy who criticises and comments on various Pro's and their fit on bikes... and then can't fit himself? Coach, train thyself?)

Again, a variety of training modalities, including racing and training on "feel", and recording of power data (and other data) is not mutually exclusive.

If you're a team manager paying many thousands per year per year for riders I would be wanting all their data - not just for performance, it is also useful in conjunction with internal anti-doping measures.

And as mentioned above, probably not wise to publicly eschew a power meter when your sponsor is marketing their new...wait for it... power meter. Not very professional.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:15 am 
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petepeterson wrote:
I am really struggling with who I find more irritating; David Walsh or Michelle Cound.

It's easy. Walsh is a cycling journalist. But Cound is just a nobody who has Froome as boyfriend.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:29 am 
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Location: Bay Area
GT56 wrote:
KWalker wrote:
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:
Blythe won nice races on higher bars when he was a Lotto rider!

That is a dramatic change of position.


I wonder why/when it changed? Being a track rider I'm sure he is used to putting out power being low and his role as a rider has changed. I'd love to see the hyper low/mega drop positions tunnel tested mainly to see if Gerard Vroomen's theory about riders increasing drag by lowering bars too much is true.



Vroomen's theory is just a story invented to justify Cervelo's decision to cover a larger frame size span (smallest to largest) without increasing the number of available sizes.
This causing the stack size jumps from size to size in the middle of the range to grow more than the size jump


Some of Cameron Meyer's leaked wind tunnel test results from a few years back when 3T developed the Sphinx bar beg to differ with you/agree with Vroomen. Sometimes a higher bar height relaxes the upper back and actually lowers the vertical profile of the rider.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:47 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
And as mentioned above, probably not wise to publicly eschew a power meter when your sponsor is marketing their new...wait for it... power meter. Not very professional.


I think you read more into this than what was really in the article...

Martin didn't trash his sponsor or the product so not so big an issue, he just stated he doesn't have the power of fellow racers so has to use his brain & instincts to be efficient, I'm sure he uses his sponsors products at times...it's refreshing to see an opinion that differs from many in the peloton these days, maybe that's why Thomas Voeckler is popular? So you question his intelligence because he can read a race, train well and win without devices?

I'll just wait for the third sigh shall I...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:28 am 
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Agreed and what causes a major stir among WWers (someone using a new shoe cover or plate hanger) probably won't have any impact at all on the general public whom the sponsors mainly target. Even if Garmin finds out about it, I doubt they will throw a fit over this.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:22 am 
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Doping related, but not doping:

I'm not a basketball fan but saw a story in the news about Jason Kidd being fines US$50k for intentionally spilling a beverage on the court during a timeout to extend the stoppage of the clock. Pretty blatant cheating in my opinion. Now, 50k is a tiny drop in the bucket for the multi-millions the guy gets paid, and will likely be paid by the team and/or sponsors (Coke must be thrilled with the bargain opportunity for prime-time advertising.). But what if cycling did something similar with cheating/doping? Drop the ridiculous "swiss franc" fines and start dropping penalties in the tens-of-thousands of dollars, escalating with each infraction. Would it change anything?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:57 am 
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Location: 604
How does 4 year bans sound?

In American pro sports you get a number of games not years for violating the league substance abuse policy.

I think the deterrents are coming and cycling already does much more than most sports with regards to policing. What it needs to do a better job of is handling the information and how it is conveyed to the audience. Unless we all prefer the doping innuendo and soap opera drama that comes with it to actual bike racing.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:25 pm 
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petepeterson wrote:
How does 4 year bans sound?



Seriously I feel like its not "that hard" (but I am naive Fred)

If a and b test samples test positive, lifetime ban these fools.

Banning people 2 years from the test date is comical at best and riders are back riding* in like a year because of all the white tape.

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Last edited by nathanong87 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:55 pm 
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There still needs to be some proportionality and, from a western perspective, we still need to have something based upon the rule of law...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:52 pm 
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GT56 wrote:
Vroomen's theory is just a story invented to justify Cervelo's decision to cover a larger frame size span (smallest to largest) without increasing the number of available sizes.
This causing the stack size jumps from size to size in the middle of the range to grow more than the size jump


3D Bike Fit raised my bars, much to my emotional disapproval. But the before and after photos showed my back position was essentially the same; I was more comfortable. Comfort = bad, right? Suffering builds character.

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