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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:35 am 
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Digging this thread a little bit out of shallow ground:

Mythical - do you have any updates?
What would the final production piece look like - logo/graphics? How much (or how little), where, and what method are they applied?

When would someone be able to order one of these stems from you?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:13 am 
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i am also interested in this.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Thanks for your interest, prendrefeu. I wish I had an indication for a launch date. Unfortunately, every step of this stem project has run into delays.

Wert Cycling will not risk announcing a release date before certain tests are passed. The Wert Straight Shooter stems need to be safe to a fault and we won't risk the life of any rider, low weight be damned.

For now, the stems will probably get an understated look with the main round section free of graphics. Surface finish will be glossy anodized with laser-engraved logos. Somewhere on an inside clamping surface there will be a serial number as well as a torque recommendation. If anyone knows or is a good graphics designer, Wert Cycling might hire their services.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:14 pm 
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+1 with justkeeppedalimy. Forging is inherent stronger than cncing. No one says you can't make a good cnc stem, but all else being equal a forged stem comea out top in stiffness.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:17 am 
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Mythical, what alloy are you using?

Forging could allow a lighter part for the same stiffness/strength, assuming the alloy selected can be forged effectively (some can't). But how much lighter is a question that is difficult to answer. There's a lot of variables in forging and getting them wrong can make a part that is much weaker. Machining a part from billet has many fewer variables, and it's much cheaper for relatively small production runs than finding a good outfit to do the forging, paying for the dies, plus post forging machining.

Forging makes sense if you're making a lot of the same part or if the operating environment is particularly difficult (i.e. high performance four stroke engine pistons). Which isn't the case here. In either case the parts would need to be run through testing to see if the design and material and production method all work as expected.

I'm not scared by a stem that is machined. It's the design and testing that is important for safety, not the production method.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:50 pm 
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The specified material for the Straight Shooter stem is Al7075-T6 round bar. There are a number of reasons for it:

- Price; I was looking to spec a higher strength aluminum alloy with better fatigue life, though it would make this stem much less affordable
- I'd love to do a forged (read: cheaper) stem, except initial costs greatly exceed that of a CNC'd stem. A future version perhaps...
- A stronger aluminum alloy won't necessarily allow for thinner wall thicknesses for a given stiffness (see Young's Modulus)


Wert stems will comply with EN14781 for road and EN14766 for MTB upon release.

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“I always find it amazing that a material can actually sell a product when it’s really the engineering that creates and dictates how well that material will behave or perform.” — Chuck Teixeira

RideWert.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Its like a breath of fresh air to see someone take the plunge and bring this kind of work back. I was a big fan of all those parts you had listed that influenced you and had quite of bit of them on my mountain bikes at the time. As far as failure goes with the right testing things can be put out and sold and people will either bite or not. I think the industry went through this big boring period of forged and molded everything for a while and people are ready for something new out of the box looking parts. The only problem I see getting exposure to the common buyer beyond the internet if local shops don't carry or promote your product in any way. :noidea:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:08 am 
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My thoughts are this is finally a new product worthy of the M2-Racer name. Adequate safety margin with 20+% less weight than the competition is near magical in a very mature, well-understood material like aluminum, and I don't believe in magic.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:18 pm 
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This looks like a sensible, well designed product. Can you tell us the design elements which make it different from an Extralite?

I would very much like to see a comparison tests versus a variety of stems as I think that helps to demonstrate the superiority of the Engineering design. Then on the production side it would be nice to understand how you control quality and ensure your parts are produced consistently.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:17 pm 
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This looks incredible - nothing much to add to the chorus here, just wanted to get in line for the inevitable launch date :)

any chance for a variety of angles? (I've always wanted a 12* stem - something right in between the 6* and the 17*, but no one makes one...)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:43 am 
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mrfish wrote:
This looks like a sensible, well designed product. Can you tell us the design elements which make it different from an Extralite?
Thanks for the compliment. The Wert Straight Shooter stem lacks a key design features characteristic to Extralite stems, namely the steerer clamp design with the slot in the barrel section. Other than that both stems can be produced on the same CNC-machines.

Apart from having a larger diameter barrel to increase stiffness (with a similar wall thickness as many other aluminum stems), Wert stems need less weight in the clamps. The transition from barrel to clamps also requires less material due to the larger size of the main section. Additionally, the proprietary bolt design enables even further weight loss in the clamp areas by a different approach to how a spherical bolt head interacts within its seat. Some brands use washers to achieve this, so double the parts. The grooves are predominantly for cosmetic purposes, although on the 3 gram bar clamps significantly reduce weight without suffering loss in clamping effectiveness. For example, the previous generation prototype required merely 2.5Nm to clamp several high-end carbon handlebars like the Schmolke TLO and Syntace Racelite2 Carbon without bar slip or posing any threat to damage or breakage by an effect called carbon notching. Like I mentioned earlier, Wert products need to be safe to a fault.

There you have it, the engineering recipe for a Wert stem. No magic whatsoever. Now anyone can make lighter stems with this formula.

Wert Cycling just uses sound and honest engineering. Why no other brand hasn't put certain engineering principles together in a similar way is beyond me but that's exactly where there lies opportunity for Wert. It's been a steep learning curve though, which required acquiring deeper knowledge and experience of production methods than engineering skills. Following the stem, we'll apply the same to pedals, wheels, and seat posts and hopefully offer these products soon enough.

thegunner wrote:
any chance for a variety of angles? (I've always wanted a 12* stem - something right in between the 6* and the 17*, but no one makes one...)
±7.5º and -17º is what Wert can offer. Technically, it's possible to do other angles, except this would be very time-consuming. However, if someone is willing to compensate Wert for the added effort/expenses of custom length and/or angle stems, we'll gladly offer them. Tip: Extralite is said to now offer a -12º stem: http://www.extralite.com/Products/HyperStem%20OC12.htm

Image

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“I always find it amazing that a material can actually sell a product when it’s really the engineering that creates and dictates how well that material will behave or perform.” — Chuck Teixeira

RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:19 pm 
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That's light. looking for the release date to own one

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:29 pm 
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This looks fantastic! Sorry if I have missed it elsewhere in the thread, but will there be a weight limit on the stem?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:40 am 
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As you know Rico - I'm anxiously awaiting all of the stuff to come through so I can kit my bike out :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:34 am 
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campbellrae wrote:
This looks fantastic! Sorry if I have missed it elsewhere in the thread, but will there be a weight limit on the stem?
There will be no rider weight limit.

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“I always find it amazing that a material can actually sell a product when it’s really the engineering that creates and dictates how well that material will behave or perform.” — Chuck Teixeira

RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook


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