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 Post subject: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 377
Just finished this last night. Excuse the apartment shot, but it won't be getting out and dirty until the weekend.

I ordered the frame months ago. Because I spec'd it for electronic shifting, Moots built it for internal battery only (a good thing in the long term). No external battery mounts or wiring port at all. That meant a painful wait for the new internal Campagnolo EPS battery to finally make production. It arrived yesterday and I built it up last night.

I have posted my initial findings about EPS V2 here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117023&start=135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Combines so many of the forum hot topics! Shimano vs Campagnolo (Campagnolo of course!). Discs vs Rim brakes (discs of course!). Electronic vs Mechanical shifting (electronic, but only just). Titanium vs Carbon (no contest!). Press Fit vs Threaded BB (Press Fit, but only just). Clincher vs Tubular (tubular on the road, clincher on the CX - this will be more of a gravel and single track bike than a racer, and whilst I appreciate the ride of tubulars, I need a bit of on the trail repairability).

Full ride report to follow, but if it is anything less than mind blowing, I will be disappointed!

Suprisingly not that light, particularly since the road version is sub 16lbs, but I guess the discs make up most of that because I can't spot much excess weight anywhere in the spec.

I have ordered some black ENVE decals to de-bling the wheels a bit. More like the road version hopefully. These are ENVE's 29 XC rims, and I guess the decals look slightly less shouty with fatter tyres fitted.

Alongside the road equivalent, I think that these are now all the bikes I could need. Just need to fit the internal battery to the road version, and these two are boringly similar in spec.

Frame - Moots Psyclo X RSL
Fork - ENVE Tapered CX
Aheadset - Chris King Inset 7
Chainset - Campagnolo Super Record Ti (46/36 Campagnolo CX Chainrings)
Pedals - Shimano XTR
Front Deraileur - Campagnolo Super Record EPS
Rear Deraileur - Campagnolo Super Record EPS
Shifters - Campagnolo Super Record EPS
Brakes - Avid BB7 SL
Chain - KMC X-11 SL
Cassette - Campagnolo Super Record
Wheels - Chris King R45 Disc, ENVE XC clincher, Sapim CX Ray, DT skewers
Tyres - Various Vittoria (depending on conditions)
Stem - Moots RSL
Bars - Zipp Service Course Aluminium
Seatpost - Moots Cinch
Saddle - Fizik Arione
Bottle Cages - King Titanium

Image

And her sister (before ther own internal battery 'makeover' this weekend).

Frame - Moots RSL
Fork - ENVE Tapered 2.0
Aheadset - Chris King Inset 7
Chainset - Campagnolo Super Record Ti Compact
Pedals - Look KEO titanium
Front Deraileur - Campagnolo Super Record EPS
Rear Deraileur - Campagnolo Super Record EPS
Shifters - Campagnolo Super Record EPS
Brakes - Campagnolo Super Record
Chain - KMC X-11 SL
Cassette - Campagnolo Super Record
Wheels - Chris King R45, ENVE Smart 3.4 tubular, Sapim CX Ray, Campagnolo skewers
Tyres - Continental Competition
Stem - Moots RSL
Bars - Zipp SL Carbon
Seatpost - Moots Cinch
Saddle - Fizik Arione
Bottle Cages - King Titanium

Image


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 Post subject: Moots RSL (s)
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:07 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:14 am 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:34 am
Posts: 316
Location: Dubai, UAE
Both stunning but that crosser is amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:43 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Senigallia
nice... tell me how the disc brakes are once you tested them

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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 1898
Location: Vienna, AUT
Wow, very nice. You might need to change your forum name with a stable like that. :D

Not that it is an issue, but is there a specific reason you did not go for a slightly extended head tube on those bikes? (Note: I am not a slammer proponent, just curious.)

Can we get a better shot of the rear seat tube/stay cluster on the Psyclo? Looks very elegant.

Stoli


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 377
I will post some better shots tomorrow.

I actually asked for an extended head tube when I ordered the road frame, but for whatever reason Moots extended the head tube and raised the top tube in line instead. With my Sevens I had the head tube 1cm above the top tube, but Moots wouldn't do it. I didn't want the bikes to look like gates, so despite my height (192cms), I prefer the look of a few spacers and a zero degree stem to an overly extended head tube.

I don't have the flexibility that I once did after a bad crash, so I do need a fairly upright position. I know it doesn't look 'cool', I know it offends the 'slammers', but the bikes fit me, ride beautifully, and that's what matters more than the looks. From a purely aesthetic perspective, I wish I could ride a 56cm frame with a slammed level stem, but I am just too tall, too old and too inflexible.


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 1898
Location: Vienna, AUT
I hear you and empathisize, Solarider.
Bikes look great as they are. Good on you for prioritizing fit over fashion.
Awaiting those pictures...


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:39 am
Posts: 25
The cross bike is beautiful. You'll have to let us know how the ENVE 29er wheels roll in cross. Logically they seem like the best disk cross option out there right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:36 am
Posts: 170
Nice. I'm digging both of your bikes. The cross build is a really smart one. Not only does it look great, but the selection of metal cockpit components, alloy-railed saddle, KMC chain, Campy groupset *with* Shimano XTR pedals, and BB7 discs speaks to a real practical sensibility (with no detriment to function). I'd venture this explains why the weight was higher than you expected, but the performance payoff is worth it.

I do wonder why you went with the SR cassette given how durable the overall build appears to be. I'd imagine that would be a high-attrition item on a cross bike with six Ti sprockets. I know it wears pretty quick even on road, although wear in tarmac applications is less dramatic than in cross.

Have you considered saving this high-end component for your road bike and subbing an all-steel Chorus unit on the crosser?

Absolutely love the bikes, though, both of them. Ride them in good health, and let the stem slammers cry all they want; you know they're just jealous!

-Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 377
I have a Chorus cassette on the spare wheels to be used for wet road rides.

Chris King R45 disc hubs, Mavic Open Pro CD rims, CX Ray spokes, Vittoria Open Pave tyres.

Slightly extravagant hub choice I know but with discs I need the rotors to align perfectly so it makes sense to run the same hubs with the same spacing. I do see this issue as being the main barrier to disc adoption in road races. How do you grab a spare wheel in the event of a puncture? Different rotor size and spacing will make it difficult. For the rest of us, relying on our own 'neutral service' in the back pocket of our jersey, having now been for a ride his morning, discs are the way forward.

But, sticking a Chorus cassette on the Enves would be like buying a Ferrari and refusing to pay for decent oil and fuel. I know the rate of attrition will be higher, but you are only here one, right?!


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 377
First ride photos. In summary, amazing! Smooth, fast, comfortable, and I am a disc braking convert. Those wheels spin sooooo easily. Well worth the outlay.

EPS works without fault, and the new battery really looks neat.

Image

Close up of the brakes:

Image

Image

The drive components. A 46 tooth outer, but strangely actually feels bigger. I never found myself spinning out:

Image

Image

The chain stay detail as requested:

Image

Some of the detail around the EPS cabling. I used small rubber o-rings to trace the wire to the brake cable, and the Barfly Garmin mount incorporates a really neat mounting point for the control box:

Image

Image

Image

And some gratuitous shots of those Moots welds.

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:07 am
Posts: 444
Location: San Francisco, CA
Great build...I love mine...I thought about Campy EPS but wanted a little more range in the rear.

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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 173
Location: South Florida
this is incredible. Seeing your Moots makes me want to build my own Ti frame.

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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 78
Location: MA
Solo:

Both of these builds look spectacular, and I'm sure the ride is equally spectacular. But PLEASE tell me that you haven't completely jumped ship from Seven to Moots. I thought we were kindred spirits. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 377
I have owned 9 Sevens in my time, and they are beautiful bikes, but sadly (and I can feel a forum name change coming!) I only have 2 Moots in the stable now having just sold my final Seven (a 29er). A number of reasons based on recent experience, some of which were financial, and some concerned the range of options and service:

- Seven charge extra for the 44mm head tube, it is standard with Moots.

- Seven charge extra for the BB30, it is standard with Moots.

- Seven's upcharge for electronic wiring is a lot more than Moots'.

- I much prefer the Moots dropouts and the way that wire exits from the dropout is more elegant than Seven having to drill a hole in the chain stay, leaving more wire exposed. Having a replaceable dropout on the CX bike is a good insurance (not available on the Seven equivalent, although they would argue reasonably that their ti dropouts are pretty tough).

- In order to fit the internal battery, the larger the seat tube aperture the better, and Seven use a 27.2 reducer which makes slipping the EPS battery along with the charging extension cable very difficult, and possibly physically impossible. Moots is 30.9, and it was already difficult enough.

- I wanted matching frame and components. The Moots SL stem is nicer than the Seven stem. Lighter, more work in it.

- The Moots Cinch seat post is vastly nicer than the Seven equivalent. Lighter, prettier, easier to adjust. Even Seven dealers try to talk you out of their seat post..

- The shaped top tube on the Moots makes it easier to carry.

- Seven did not handle a recent warranty problem on the 29er (down tube/head tube weld failure, genuinely 'just riding along') particularly efficiently.

I still have a lot of love for Seven, and I have stuck with the brand for many years. I am sure I will return one day, and I am considering one of their Evergreen range for winter bike. Their quality is certainly on a par with Moots, their brushed finish is much easier to maintain, and their custom fit process is a real bonus if you need it. Having been through the process 9 times, I had a fairly good idea with these 2 what I wanted. The road RSL was custom, but fortunately the CX RSL was spot on as standard. Plus, the S-bend stays on a Seven offer a real clearance advantage. I do occasionally clip my heels on the Moots stays.

One day we will be back on the same brand I am sure! For now, a change is as good as a rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Moots RSL (s)
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:24 am 


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