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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Location: nyc
Hello

I am trying to determine best practices for a yearly (or bi-yearly) plan to overhaul, clean and update components and junctures. So much different advice hard to determine whats best. I am thinking "grease" is not the best solution as its slippery so might help prevent seize but not good for grip, am I correct?

Please list your preferences for the following combinations of materials and let's compile a list:


Carbon - Carbon: Anti Seize and Grip? Same compound for both or different?

Carbon-Ti:

Carbon-Alu:

Alu-Alu:

Alu-Ti:

Ti-Ti: (Seems to have its own specific requirements though I'm not sure why)

Steele-Ali-Ti_Carbon:

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Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:26 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:12 pm 
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For a while, anti-seize compounds were primarily Copper and Graphite, some had a 3rd metal (Aluminum) added in.

Because we're not really concerned with high temperatures and/or pressures, which is the primary reason for the metal differences in the compounds, almost all of them will work fine for bicycles. Pick the one that's cheapest.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Yes the cheapest is grease. Same grease you would use on your car whether you have one or not.
Even the bolts on you chain ring, pedal spindle threads, brake bolts, seat post bolts, seat tube, seat rail contact points, electrical tape under the front derailleur clamp etc. Properly torqued bolts will not back out.
If you are paranoid then get the loctite (blue) for the bolts you do not want have back out.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:31 pm 
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If you're going to go the grease route, I would suggest a marine grade grease.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Waste of money but sure you can use marine grade grease.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Based on what data are you saying it's a waste of money?

The Calcium Sulfonate thickeners, commonly found in marine greases, have a lot of benefit in preventing oxidation.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Grease doesn't counteract torque? It won't require more torque to tighten bolts and seat posts? What about carbon paste then? Does it work as an anti seize as well? I have also read that Ti requires its own special anti-seize with graphite in it for some reason...?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Most torque specs are for clean and dry threads. If you lubricate it before torquing, a common rule of thumb is to reduce the torque by 30%. 30% is a rough number because it depends on the lubricant or plating that was used.

IMO: Grease is not sufficient for Ti applications, especially where titanium meets aluminum.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Wouldn't grease require MORE torque as it reduces friction?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:29 pm 
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rijndael wrote:
Based on what data are you saying it's a waste of money?

The Calcium Sulfonate thickeners, commonly found in marine greases, have a lot of benefit in preventing oxidation.


What do you think regular grease does?
Even if you were to live near salt water sea, or ride on salt treated roads in the winter regular grease would be fine.
Do you periodically ride your bike in the salt water?
I'd even spring some extra dollars to buy waterproof grease so it lasts a bit longer if I were to commute in the rain a lot. Or just apply regular grease more often.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:32 pm 
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gitsome wrote:
Wouldn't grease require MORE torque as it reduces friction?


In an oversimplified description:

When you torque a bolt, you're trying to achieve preload/stretch, not thread friction.

The dry torque value is a thread friction + preload. By lubing the thread you are removing some of the thread friction, but want to maintain the same preload, so the overall torque value is reduced.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:38 pm 
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rijndael wrote:
Most torque specs are for clean and dry threads. If you lubricate it before torquing, a common rule of thumb is to reduce the torque by 30%. 30% is a rough number because it depends on the lubricant or plating that was used.

IMO: Grease is not sufficient for Ti applications, especially where titanium meets aluminum.


Grease is fine for Ti and stainless steel where they meet aluminum.

I greased my stainless steel bolts with regular automotive bearing grease on my aluminum stem.
What do you think happened?
Answer: Nothing.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:39 pm 
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stella-azzurra: Just so I'm clear, since you didn't answer my question, you're basing your "waste of money" comment on your experience?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Yes as explained in the previous post as you might not have read yet since I just replied.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Location: it's raining, it must be uk
cf-cf - use cf assembly compound, it's grease plus some chunky bits to avoid slippage

for dissimilar materials, it is not simple oxidation that is the risk, it is galvanic corrosion, which can be very aggressive - without anti-seize i've seen large chunks of aluminium (on my bike!) in contact with steel turn to powder within a few months, just takes some moisture and a little surface abrasion to start things off

metal-metal - use anti-seize, aside from grease these contain finely ground metallic particles that act as sacrificial anode, you can select the type for specific metal-metal junctions - choosing one with a lower anodic index (less noble) than either metal involved is wise if you'll be doing lots of wet rides, copper loaded is not a good anti-seize choice if aluminium is involved (al loses the galvanic contest vs. cu), zinc loaded is better

depending on conditions the metal in the anti-seize will eventually be corroded and cease to provide protection, so reapplying every x years is necessary

cf-metal can also result in galvanic corrosion if the clearcoat is impaired/porous, it's the metal that loses the fight, especially a low ai one like aluminium, so mounting 'bare' is inadvisable unless your rides are going to be 100% dry, i'd still use assembly compound and re-apply every year or so

noble->less noble
graphite->gold->ti->nice steel->copper->mild steel->aluminium->zinc->magnesium

given a joint between two of these, use an anti-seize with a filler less noble than either


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Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:45 pm 


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