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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:30 am 
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Posts: 125
Location: Denmark
Hi,

In doubt as to what i should choose my my cross-rig - TRP CX 8.4s or Avid Shorty Ultimates? I realize that these are fundamentally different, but it seems that people are well satisfied with both.

Wheels are Zipp 303, environment is forest with some mud - but not Belgian-style mudfests.

/Jonas

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
Though I've never owned/operated Avid's shortys, I can say none of the (few) cantis I've tried come anywhere close to the 8.4s in terms of stopping power, and that sits very well with me and how I race. The guys I know who run 8.4s or 9.0s all feel the same and you will never see any of us back on cantis.

I have heard/read people comment negatively on 8.4s' clearance. N=1 here in the US Pacific Northwest, I've put them through thick grass and mud and feel I don't give up anything to the guys on cantis. Other comments re: modulation, again, N=1 and I have had no issues.

I will say the key (for me) to making the 8.4s far FAR superior to cantis, was finding the optimal pads for the wheels I run.

jc

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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:23 pm 
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I've got bikes with both currently. My take is, if you are using new style Shimano levers then go with the 8.4 brakes. You will have great power and good pad/rim clearance. If you are using Campy or Sram, then I'd get the Ultimates. If you run them in the narrow position you still get great braking power and will have good rim clearance. My results with Sram/Campy on the 8.4 brakes have been less than ideal. I was constantly fiddling with the pad/rim distance to get ideal braking and lever feel. They always seems a bit grabby as well. Again, all of that goes away and they are awesome in every way with Shimano lever's greater cable pull.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:56 am 
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Location: Denmark
Thanks for the answers! a couple of follow-up questions:

@jcrr: any experience with pads for carbon rims?

@Briscoelab: Confused... i thought the CX9s were made for Shimano and the 8.4s specifically for SRAM / Campy?? I use SRAM Force levers from 2011.

Br Jonas

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
klingej

This is the (limited) knowledge that has been passed down to me:

*Zipp Cork work best with (my) Eastons (EC90SLX). Swisstop yellow not so good, and Reynolds, not good at all.
*Reynolds Cryo Blue work best with Reynolds wheels.
*Zipp Cork or Tangente Platinum Pro work best for Zipps.

Realize you will loose some power in wet conditions. The above combos loose the least. I can speak for the first combo, and the other 2 combos is what I hear from close friends who run those.

As far as your comment to Briscoelab- 8.4s for Sram; 9.0s for Shimano. You are correct-They were specifically designed to match the cable pull of each. No clue for Campy.

jc

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:38 pm 
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jcrr wrote:
As far as your comment to Briscoelab- 8.4s for Sram; 9.0s for Shimano. You are correct-They were specifically designed to match the cable pull of each. No clue for Campy.


I've used both the 9.0 and 8.4 with Campy, I far prefer the 8.4's. I believe SRAM & Campy levers pull similar amounts of cable.

I've mentioned it in other threads, but +1 on no mud clearance issues with 8.4's. That includes 2012 Masters World Championships where bikes were coated with thick, grass-laden, freezing mud. Wheels spun freely the entire time.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:27 pm 
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I've ran the cx 9s on Shimano and still hate them. Not enough lever pull for my personal tastes. The 8.4s work great with the new style shimano levers. There is still enough power to lock the wheel up with one finger and you get more modulation and pad clearance.

Even TRP/Shimano sponsored riders, like Molly Cameron here in the US, switched to the 8.4s with Shimano levers as soon as they came out. Better brakes all around.

Campy and Sram levers do pull similar cable, that's why they are really not suited to the cx9 brakes at all. I feel they are OK with the 8.4, but not not ideal. I would rather have a narrow profile, well setup, canti brake with either of those systems (and I've personally used both types on Sram and Campy).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:03 am 
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Lots of very useful input - thank you all for that! Still not quite sure what it's going ot be. Might swap the SRAM levers for some Shimano (and go Di2 at the same time) and try out the 8.4s.

Whatever the outcome - thanks for your opinions and experiences!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Every recommendations here so far is not bad per say, but all the cross-rig described are all a little bit different in how they perform and what not. Select what it is you are looking for from when you say best and then make an recommended option from there.

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Last edited by Alejandro8100 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:55 pm 
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To me, it's all about day to day ease of use and race day readiness. That said, my shorty ultimates have been awesome at both


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:17 am 
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Location: Denmark
As opinions are rightfully divided in the end It came down to availability - could get my hands on some cx 8.4 at my LBS and will try them out. If they don't suit me I guess they'll come up for sale in here and I'll then try the shortys.

Thanks again for your advice and opinions!

Br Jonas

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Location: London
Currently running CX8.4 front and Avid Ultimate on the rear :) Best combo for clearance I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:13 am 
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Struggled with this one too. The Avid Ultimates won out since it was a function and great price on them that drove me to get them. The weird thing is my cheap Onyx brakes have worked great and run totally silent which is unusual for canti's.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:42 am 
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First race no the 8.4s and - they actually seem to be able to stop the bike as opposed to just slowing it down a bit. Not great modulation - not entirely binary but there's definitely more of an on/off-feeling with them. I do prefer that to the "why am i not scrubbing of any speed at all" feeling i had before :-)

Should be said, however, that the clearance it not impressive (in my setup) and the race was not especially muddy.

Br Jonas

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:08 pm 
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On the 8.4's, use different pads to improve modulation. The stock pads provide a lot of stopping power, but do tend to feel a bit "binary." Kool Stop Salmon or Swissstop GHP II will both be a bit less grabby, and make modulation feel a bit smoother. Same for Swissstop yellow, but those get eaten up pretty quickly on aluminum rims in a wet race.


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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:08 pm 


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