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What are the 2 most important things for you on a crank ?
-Design + stiffness 10%  10%  [ 15 ]
-Design + weight 14%  14%  [ 20 ]
-Design + price 5%  5%  [ 8 ]
-Stiffness + weight 43%  43%  [ 63 ]
-Stiffness + price 9%  9%  [ 14 ]
-Weight + price 19%  19%  [ 28 ]
Total votes : 148
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 977
Location: Aix en Provence
it seems to me that a lot less talking and a lot more walking is needed.


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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:42 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:28 am 
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Posts: 32
In the US or the other europe country, is it ok that keeping money from someone and keep them waiting for a long time if just make and delivery product on someday?
Is it ok that use the kept money for development fund and not refund to correct owner if make the better product?

I don't care if some guys said something as vindicate Ted Ciamillo.
All of the things are freedom.
But we must keep duty or reason.
Such this things are matter of course.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Posts: 337
Mimizk wrote:
In the US or the other europe country, is it ok that keeping money from someone and keep them waiting for a long time if just make and delivery product on someday?


This product appeared as a work in progress with quite the wait time. Nowhere have I seen them available immediately. If you found out about them through this forum then this definitely should have come as no surprise. My understanding is production has been streamlined and there are now options available with a much shorter delivery time and dealers are able to stock them.

Mimizk wrote:
Is it ok that use the kept money for development fund and not refund to correct owner if make the better product?


You paid for something that was updated during production. Ted is replacing customers who have noted issues with the latest version at no cost to them.

Mimizk wrote:
I don't care if some guys said something as vindicate Ted Ciamillo. All of the things are freedom. But we must keep duty or reason. Such this things are matter of course.


Not sure follow but you are welcome to your opinion.

Once production catches up to demand, which is happening I think a lot of issues will be resolved.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm
Posts: 278
PAYMENTS, TAXES, AND REFUND POLICY

If you are unsatisfied with your purchase for any reason, you may return the product within 30 days of receipt for a refund minus the shipping costs.


i'm an unsatisfaied customer.

So i've returned yesterday the crank to ciamillo and are waiting for a refund, and hope he will honour his refund policy.

I wish i was one of those happy customers, posting good things about the product, but i'm not and that as cost me a lot of Money.

i'm allways looking for new stuff for my bike, to test diferent botique products but allways with stiffness in mind, but i think (i don't know if i was an isolated case) that the product still needs some refinements in my case the BB30 Version, and better factory control an logistics dispatch.

Issues of my crank:

1 - Better Chainline, mine was to inwards, making the 3 last cogs of the Cassette unusable do to Rubing of the chain.
2 - Making the 1st point even worst the the spider was missaligned in one of the 5 bolt points, by at least 1mm.
3 - Adpteurs for mounting the Crank were not in the packaged, i managed to get ones, but Ted also send them - so this point was corrected.
4 - and what drove me crasy, was the creaking sounds the crank was doing, (this crank as 16 contact points: 12 on the carbon rods with Alu parts, 3 on spindle and 1 on the spider. (be in mind that all parts were greased, ti frame/pedals copper grease, Center Bolt of the Crank Loctite, the BB was new, the chainrings were new, only the pedals were the same, but were replaced with plataform downhill ones to see if the it was from them)
5 - My spider wasn't full anodized, it seems the contact zone of the spider with crank arm, was corrected (CNC machined) for fitting.
6 - the Spindle on the Right arm is Butted, and at least 4mm of "30mm spindle" is missing to full support the Bearing track.

So i'm one off those unlucky cases, and my decision was acording to the 6 points described above, return the crank, and ask for a refund.

Maybe if the Crank was without issues at least the creaking part, i would keaped it, and ask for a warranty spider and buy a 130mm spider also like i emailed him (before i even tried the crank), but i couldn't get arround that part.

About the stiffness of the crank, for a 5 point Spider crank, i think it's very good, but my Cannondale SL (manage to get new crank arms, and reuse the spidering)
spidering in 53/39, is mutch stiffer, and lighter and only as 3 contact points so no creaking at all ( spider, left and right arm).

Best Regards, hope this as gone in a diferent direction, as the crank looks really great.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 32
Hello carbonLORD,

carbonLORD wrote:
You paid for something that was updated during production. Ted is replacing customers who have noted issues with the latest version at no cost to them.


I think you are misunderstanding because I have not received any items from Ted Ciamillo.
Ok? I think you should read my posts.
You can understand what irrelevent oppinion you said.

I paid him 1100$.
He promissed the date of delivery.
He didn't keep it so I demand him to refund.

There is no product on my hands.
He don't refund the money and not return my 2set of Vista cranksets.

I don't need such his product.
Just I want to back my money, ok?
He have not refund my money for 1month over.
I can't believe you guys vindicate him on this situation.
Really, it seems that he is troubled with money so can't refund.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 am
Posts: 597
elfuinha wrote:
1 - Better Chainline, mine was to inwards, making the 3 last cogs of the Cassette unusable do to Rubing of the chain.


Are you sure that was due to the crankset. My only reason for asking is that I'm sure I remember you saying that you were using Praxis chainrings and I believe there's another thread on this forum that mentions chain rub when using those chainrings on certain cranksets. Personally, I think you shouldn't cross chain anyway but that's just me :D

@Mimizk - it may help people reading this thread if you list the dates of any 'actions' and the actions themselves that either you or Ciamillo did so that we have a better understanding when you ordered, when you paid, when the cranks were due etc. plus any other relevant details. It may be farther back in the thread but the thread is getting quite long and obviously confusing some posters.

I'd also have a personal interest to see any actual reviews from people using the crankset to see how good it has been and from regular customers, not someone with a vested interest. Comments such as 'stiffer than Dura Ace' are particularly intriguing. I still quite like the look of the cranks but I've seen very little unbiased information so far. Sending a set to Fairwheel to add into their crank shoot out might be a good start. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Posts: 337
Mimizk wrote:
Hello carbonLORD,

I think you are misunderstanding because I have not received any items from Ted Ciamillo.
I paid him 1100$.
He promissed the date of delivery.
He didn't keep it so I demand him to refund.
Really, it seems that he is troubled with money so can't refund.


Sorry I did misunderstand.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:08 am
Posts: 8
Seems like quite a few have had issues with their Gravitas crank, I had a very positive experience but ordered mine through Joe at Irish Cycles. Customer service is top notch. I'd definitely recommend this route rather than trying to deal with the manufacturer (Ted Ciamillo) directly.

Only issue I had was they forgot to send the spacers (BBRight only needed 1 on the drive side), and the splines on the crank were not a perfect match to those on my Quarq so had to grid down a bit to get proper tolerances. If not using a quarq though this shouldn't be an issue. Crank it self is a work of art, and I finally have something proportional to my leg length (190mm), not the silly narrow range of crank lengths by other manufacturers. I liked it so much I ordered 2. But I guess like anything else, YMMV

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7518
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
It looks beautiful in all black.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 32
Hello forum members,
Today I have a report.
Ted Ciamillo finally refunded the money to me! :beerchug:

It was too long time but money is back.
It needed for a month to refund.
How do you know that you can refund only clicking through PayPal?
Ted Ciamillo, the man needed a month time for such thing.
He is amazing man, this is correct.


So... Stephen said me that I should write down about my experience with Ciamillo.
Ok, I'd write the things for this forum and for prevention of damage continue to spread by Ciamillo.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

2013/1/16
I sent him an E-mail and received reply on the same date.
He promised to make special crankset which can attach Vista Integral pedal unit only 100$ upcharge.

2013/2/5
I ordered the cranks officialy.
He said
Quote:
I will get an invoice over to you this evening
(textual quotation).

2013/2/7
I asked him a question why he could answer so quickly about compatibility with Vista pedals.
The pedals are very unique parts, so I thought maybe he was also a user of Vista cranks.
He didn't answer this.
(Also this time, I sent him a photo of Vista pedals because perhaps he didn't know the pedals.)

2013/2/9
He didn't send me an invoice so I E-mail to him again.

2013/2/16
Again.

2013/3/29
Again.

2013/4/2
He sent me this ludic sentences.
Quote:
Are you ready to move forward with your order.
I will need to know the thread size of your pedals.

Thanks,
Ted​


2013/4/3
I sent him an answer about his previous E-mail.

2013/5/12
He didn't send me any reply.
I E-mailed him.

2013/5/13
He asked me that he wanted to see the Vista crankset for a standard.
I felt this is little strange because he have said me he can make the special crankset though he didn't know the crank and pedals.

2013/5/23
I sent him 2 set of Vista Integral crankset.

2013/5/29
He have received my parcell and sent me a message.
He have said even he didn't know the Vista pedals.
He said me that he want more pay, plus 500$ for it.
I worried.

To tell the truth, I lost most of my motivation to buy the cranks at this time because already it needed too long time and his response was too bad.
But I had a plan to participate in our bicycle event on 16, August.
I thought there was a value if he would be able to get the cranks ready for the event.
So I told him this thing about the event and asked whether he could make the cranks until the event.
And also I told him that there was no mean if he would not keep the date of delivery.
I promissed him the date and I would pay the extra cost, 500$ if he would really keep it.
So the first invoice was decided to 1100$.

He answered me what he would be able to make it only a month!

2013/5/31
I've paid.
So he was supporsed to make the cranks untill July would come.

2013/7/1
E-mailed him.
No answered.

2013/7/27
E-mailed again.

2013/7/27
He sent me this.
Quote:
Sorry for the delay. I have your set going out this week.
I have been busy working on a revision to increase the stiffness so that we have the highest stiffness to weight ratio of any crank on the market.
I will have tracking info for you in the upcoming week.


2013/7/30
He didn't send me tracking number.
So I mailed him to inform the nums.

2013/8/1
Again.

2013/8/3
Again.

2013/8/4
I slightly felt that he told me a lie.
So I mailed him that I would demand to freeze his bank account through PayPal if he didn't send me the product.

2013/8/5
He suddenly sent me this.
Quote:
All you had to do was request a refund.
I will be refunding your money this week and sending your pedal back to you.



2013/8/5
I told him that just sent the things or acknowledge he told lie.

2013/8/5
He sent me this funny sentences.
Quote:
The crankset is made but there are assembly and checking procedures to complete.
If you want this custom crankset you need to stop with the threats.
I am happy to refund your money at anytime and send your pedal back to you.
This is a custom project and there are delays which are out of my control.
If you are not happy with waiting, simply ask for your money back and I will return it.


2013/8/5
Even if I wait him or not, I needed to certain of he said me a correct thing that is whether he was really making my cranks or not.
So I demanded him to take the pics of the making cranks.

2013/8/15
Again.
No answer.

2013/9/8
I decided to cancel the cranks.
I sent him a mail to demand refund.

2013/9/8
Replied toooooooo quickly from him.
Quote:
we will refund you by Friday and get your crank back right away.
Sorry for the problems.


2013/9/7
He didn't refund to me.
Claimed to him.

2013/9/10
Quote:
I processed adding funds to the Paypal account last Friday.
I will be able to make the transfer as soon as it is available.


Ofcourse this is a lie.

2013/9/19
I couldn't confirm any refunding action on my PayPal account.
Mail again.

2013/9/30
Replied.
Quote:
I am working on getting refunded.
Please give me until the end of the week.


Told lie as breathing.

2013/10/1
Claim.

2013/10/9
Again.

2013/10/10
Today, finally refunded.
But he didn't return my 2 cranksets yet.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:04 am
Posts: 2344
Location: Mississippi
jsjenkins wrote:
Seems like quite a few have had issues with their Gravitas crank, I had a very positive experience but ordered mine through Joe at Irish Cycles. Customer service is top notch. I'd definitely recommend this route rather than trying to deal with the manufacturer (Ted Ciamillo) directly.

Only issue I had was they forgot to send the spacers (BBRight only needed 1 on the drive side), and the splines on the crank were not a perfect match to those on my Quarq so had to grid down a bit to get proper tolerances. If not using a quarq though this shouldn't be an issue. Crank it self is a work of art, and I finally have something proportional to my leg length (190mm), not the silly narrow range of crank lengths by other manufacturers. I liked it so much I ordered 2. But I guess like anything else, YMMV

Image


WOW! Those are gorgeous! Wonder were I can order those OTHER than from Ciamillo website.....do they work with BB86??

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Posts: 8
@btompkins0112, thanks! Yes you should be able to use it with BB86, just use use a bottom bracket which can accept a 30mm spindle, like this: http://www.rotorbike.com/products/road/bb86-frame_40

As far as ordering it, I'd definitely recommend Irish Cycles! (http://www.irishcycles.com/). Ask to talk to Joe, he is in pretty regular communication with Ted and the process was much smoother than what it looks like others have had. I ordered 2 cranks. Time from the order was placed to receiving was only like 3-4 weeks and Joe kept me updated every step. As I mentioned these were a custom length (190mm ), but he can also do a custom Q factor.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:53 am
Posts: 156
Location: Athens, GA
Guys,

There were definitely some challenges with this project and with my business health since the recession (I think we are all feeling it in some way) but all has been resolved regarding performance and production of the Gravitas 3.0 Crank. I apologize to those caught in the revision process and those waiting on orders. I understand your frustration and I am very sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused. I am more than willing to make things right.

Some of my customers, which I owe a lot more than product, have been extremely supportive through the hurdles.. for them I have immense appreciation and thanks. (Olivier, William, Kris, Joe, Eliott, Anthony, Alain, Rob, and Sabin to name a few). There are customers here who are finally thrilled with the end result and others who have been patiently waiting who will be thrilled very shortly. Production is flowing, the product is perfected, and I believe I may now have the highest strength-to-weight crank on the market (testing with Charles at Pez and Tyler at Bike Rumor will verify this soon). We are gaining momentum with production and all seven of my CNCs have been populated with crank parts to spread the load. We are now at a capacity of 3 cranks per day and improving.

Problems with performance and production are now a thing of the past... customer service? eh, let's be honest... you might want to deal with a dealer like Olivier at Veloperso in France, Robert Choy in Singapore, Sabin West at Carbon Lord, and Joe at Irish Cycles. If you are stateside and want a dealer with the best technical expertise, I would contact Joe at Irish Cycles (joe@irishcycles.com) or if Europe, Olivier at Veloperso (olivierbally@yahoo.com)

Thanks,

Ted Ciamillo

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 32
You should do sending to return the borrowed things if you have a time you could write rubish sentences on this forum.
Why you could write such these long message if you have said true things that you don't have enogh time as you can't refund which doesn't need any other action wthout clicking.

Before you do sales talk here, you must treat honnestly your present customers.
Though a few people are here who accept your foolish dealing with customers because you may make better parts or just they didn't suffer from you, it can't be said "business".
There is no difference from playing at house if you don't see your customers.
You make the parts in selfish, you choose the customers in selfesh, and be satisfied in selfish.
You should think again for the business why you can be satisfied.


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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:56 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 32
I also think you Ciamillo should not add new customer to your list untill the all of customers who have already ordered and paid get the products.


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