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 Post subject: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:10 am
Posts: 19
I just replaced my old Record 11 old chain with a new Record 11 chain using the Campagnolo tool. The master link moves freely and the drive chain was shifting perfectly before I changed the chain. Chain length on the new chain is identical to the old chain. Now, at seemingly random and infrequent moments, the chain drops when I downshift in the front. I reread the front derailleur instruction manual and reoriented the cage slightly and took out all slack from the cable (though there really wasn't any slack to begin with). At mile 91.5 of yesterday's century, I downshifted quickly for a hill and my chain dropped, so I lost the group I was riding with. I'm frustrated...any suggestions? I'm considering a chain catcher but it would be great to just set up the front derailleur in a better way to avoid the occasional chain drop. Thank in advance to the experts on the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
The same thing used to happen to me each time I changed chain....I do not know why it was happening :?: After some kms on the new chain it got right = no chain drop :noidea:

I bought a Rotor chain catcher last year, never missed a shift anymore.

Sorry for additional off topic question:
is there a difference between Chorus and Record chain in performance and durability?
I always run Chorus chains and sprockets on my Record group. Last time I bought Record chain.
1) it seemed to me more loud :noidea:
2) the Record chain is almost dead after 2500kms, the Chorus used to last 3500km :smartass:

Anyone having similar experiences?

Thanx


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:10 am
Posts: 19
I'm grateful to hear that someone else has had the same experience and with Km's it went away. My suspicion is that Campagnolo has designed the drivetrain in a way that allows it to be set up with no chain drops starting from a new chain. Indeed, my new bike was set up this way. What's the trick?


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Welland, Ontario
you didn't mention it - so i'll ask - did you recheck the low limit position?

I put the chain in the small-big and adjust the limit screw so that the chain is barely clearing the inner plate.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 328
I've had this with Chorus chains on Athena (50/34) . It's gone away for me as the chain has worn. It's never happened with KMC chains.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4716
Location: Canada
Are you using EPS or mechanical? Are you using Campagnolo cranks and rings? Even without a 'matched set' there should be no problem. In my experience, a properly-adjusted derailleur (either Record or Dura-Ace) would never drop a shift :wink: . Having said that, anyone who races without a chainkeeper is crazy.

If you are running a Campagnolo derailleur, I recommend the Campagnolo chainkeeper. It is light and looks really good.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:10 am
Posts: 1036
Location: South Florida
Didn't even know Campagnolo made a chain keeper!


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5328
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
The Campagnolo FD-SR003 chain catcher requires a braze-on FD.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Posts: 813
Location: NYC
First, a chain catcher is a must for any carbon frame...it will not improve your shifting but rather simply act as an additional limit barrier that will keep your chin from dropping;

Second, the drop you are experiencing (assuming all adjustments are correct as you describe) may be due to a new chain meshing with worn chainrings. Keep in mind that your old stretched chain created its own peaks, valley, snags burrs, etc on your chainring teeth, over time. Your new chain must now mesh with the existing wear on your chainrings. The drop or mis-shifts you are experiencing may be due to your chain simply getting caught on some of these imperfections, which results in your chain slapping over rather then gently shifting over, during the process of a shift from large to small chainring. As your chain rotates around your chainring and you activate your shifter, even small snags in your chainrings can cause the chain to jump rather the glide, resulting in the jump during a shift that could cause your chain to drop.

There are two solutions to this issue: First, go easy on hard shifts during your first 100 miles after installing a new chain and let the chain mesh to your chainrings Second, inspect your chainrings and sand or grind down any burrs or snags. I don't know how worn your chainrings are but these recs are assuming that your 11 speed gruppo is fairly new and the chainrings are far from being worn and needing replacement.
EM3

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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Posts: 1157
Location: Canada
The other side of the chaincatcher is the problem you encounter if your chain gets stuck behind the chaincatcher. Pretty well impossible to unstick without tools. Keep your drivetrain properly set up and in good shape and you rarely or never drop a chain.....and if you do its easy to get it back in while riding.

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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:10 am
Posts: 19
I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses. The chainrings are SR, the cassette is Chorus, they are fairly new (it's only my second chain), and I followed the Campagnolo FD instructions including by adjusting the lower limit screw and cable tension. It's a clamp on FD so unfortunately I'll need to use a non-Campagnolo chain keeper it seems; was thinking of K-Edge. It's possible there is some sand/grit on the chainrings, so I'll look at that. It's also true that I didn't shift gently in the first 100 miles. Any other thoughts would be most welcome. I wonder whether race mechanics advise their riders not to shift quickly during a break in period...maybe I'm still missing something regarding FD setup.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
em3 wrote:

The drop you are experiencing may be due to a new chain meshing with worn chainrings. Keep in mind that your old stretched chain created its own peaks, valley, snags burrs, etc on your chainring teeth, over time.
EM3


How do I recongnize my chainrings are worn out?
I do recognize it easily on the cogs...a new chain is skipping, but what about chainrings?

What are Your experiences with 11sp sprockets and chainrings?
My 11sp sprockets have now approx. 15 000km and it is worn out already (my 10sp cassettes were more solid)
How many kms are the chainrings supposed to work (assuming changing chains properly (132,6mm) )

Thanx.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Posts: 813
Location: NYC
Here are a couple of random shots I pulled from a google images search. A worn chainring will exhibit the same characteristics as a worn cog, specifically, a rounded leading edge (where teeth are engaging rollers) and an elongation in the valley between the teeth (simply due to wear of teeth overtime and loss of material). Most quality chainrings will get you 15K-20K miles after which it is likely the teeth will begin to get quite worn into the sharks teeth-like profile shown in pics below. However, just like your cassette mileage will depend on how often you have changed your chain, how clean you maintain your drivetrain and the conditions (e.g. rain, snow, sand, etc) in which you ride your bike.

EM3

Image

Image

Image

Image


PS. pic 1, 3 & 4 display a chainring from the backside/back view, while pic 2 is the front view

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My 2013 Cervelo R5


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:10 am
Posts: 19
I just phoned the Campagnolo factory rep at Campagnolo North America at (760) 931-0106. We discussed my problem. He said I shouldn't shift both front and rear derailleurs at the same time (which I was doing, in the transition from downhill to uphill; by the way, I'm running non-electronic SR), but they recommend to allow a half second or a full second between the two shifts to allow the chain to seat before the second shift. I'm running a 27 large cog in the rear and he suggested raising my FD from its current 1 1/2 mm gap from the bottom of the FD cage to the large chain ring to a 2 mm gap, which they've found with a 27 or 29 large cog in the rear makes it easier for the FD to move the chain from large to small chainring given the chain angle involved. It's great to be able to phone an expert at the company and get instant advice.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
cshiells wrote:
It's great to be able to phone an expert at the company and get instant advice.


Hm, I read the advices the "expert" provided...well, I say it is useless.
Or maybe it works on a weekend ride with Your wife, but durring a race?! :unbelievable:
I suppose Super Record is not designed for weekend rides, it is a racing stuff!

I have been changing gears on both front and rear at the same time for 20years without issue (Campagnolo groups). It just has to work like that. If it does not, nobody will use it.

Just my 2 cents.


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