"PRO" Cycling Discussion

[Monkeyboy3333]

yeh a good spot, he put it all down on the road there didn't he for Nibali with seemingly no reason to, other than that which you mention.

[xnavalav8r]

@ Pren again.

Sorry but I think you will find the UK athletes have faced numerous in competition tests whereas Horner mysteriously disappeared for six months prior to re emerging as a world beater.

Now Froome did the same in 2011 so question arks could be aimed fairly at him. But he maintained his form for the next two years. It will be interesting to see if Horner clan do the same.

As for logic, it is illogical to suggest that there is a history of British athletes en mass being guilty of cheating. The British riders you question were no riding when the sport was deep in the mire of overt doping. Horner meanwhile was winning during the doping era and comes from a country with a shameful history of organised doping in pretty much all professional sport. The distinctions between the two are quite clear to me and to many I speak to. I guess your bias does not allow an objective view to form a reasoned opinion. But please do consider the differences in historical circumstances .

Funny, I recall some British rider dropping dead during a Tour due to doping long before any Americans even entered the race. I'd say the British history of doping long precedes that of the Americans. It just happens that the Americans who have been caught were high-profile and made a lot more splash in the headlines. I'm not condoning what they did, but they've all (eventually) come clean about it... many without ever failing a test.

I'm surprised you are not suspicious of Wiggins' near complete retreat from road racing after his "unbelievable" Tour de France win. The guy goes from GC-slayer to can't-finish-a-race almost as quick as Andy Schleck but that doesn't pique your interest at all? And now he wants to return to the track. I find that odd. To me, he looks like a flash in the pan. One spectacular season and now he will likely disappear into obscurity.

As for Horner, he didn't drop off the face of the earth. I'm only a fan and I know where he was for the 5 months he wasn't racing. He's not a difficult guy to follow. He posts on social media and is friendly to amateur riders on a ride. He was training... a lot! And very publicly. If USADA or WADA didn't test him during his recuperation from knee surgery I see that as a failure of the system, not a problem of Horner's. But to suggest he "mysteriously disappeared for six months" is a blatant disregard for facts at best and, more likely, simply an ignorant statement.

[slyboots]

I'm surprised you are not suspicious of Wiggins' near complete retreat from road racing after his "unbelievable" Tour de France win. The guy goes from GC-slayer to can't-finish-a-race almost as quick as Andy Schleck but that doesn't pique your interest at all? And now he wants to return to the track. I find that odd.

Try reading his book. Him going back to track is quite understandable.

[ultyguy]

Don't want to do the work? Screw you guys, I'll do it myself.

WOW, that was a statement. Sagan now World's favourite.

Did Gesink feel too good?

[ultyguy]

Number of Grand Tours won on Trek...clean?

Oh wait! I forgot about Savodelli, the only guy ever to win a GT b/c of his descending prowess. I don't care what the guy was on, it can't make you descend like that!

[MarkGiardini]

Farrar 2nd!

Will it be enough for a Worldtour contract next year?

I would be more surprised if Farrar didn't get a WT ride somewhere next year. He is just so frustrating to watch. Every time I watch him line up for a bunch finish I'm almost expecting him to end up on the tarmac, kinda like Gesink, aways onthe floor!
Both them guys would be good Hollywood stunt doubles!

[Danza]

I've heard the use of testosterone replacement therapy as prescribed by a physician is common in masters racing, does the WADA or UCI regulate this differently than USADA?

[djconnel]

It's illegal in USADA, but testing is exceptionally rare.

That said, there was one woman racer of whom I'm aware who'd had sex-change therapy. She was clearly on hormone treatment. So I don't know.

[airwise]

Pren

It's fairly simple for me. There WAS a case to investigate when Froome starred in the Vuelta of 2011. I feel that has been answered long before the Tour win this year, with the assistance of Walsh, Team Sky and many others, along with reasoned consideration vis a vis circumstances and historical/cultural bias. It's nothing to do with his nationality which I consider to be African/Kenyan.

With Horner, there's a huge amount of questions and no answers. When asked pointedly on British TV yesterday about doping he completely dodged the issue like a top politician. Contrast that with Nibali and Team Sky.

But I see some (to me) very twisted logic being applied - basically anything to make a case. An example being Tom Simpson. The poster must realise alcohol and billy was NOT cheating nor was it banned. BiG difference to the American industrialised doping industry of the past 25 years which has impacted all sports Stateside. Well. Big difference to me.

As I say we will not agree so I'll leave it at that. The Internet will always have someone who disagrees with you however tenuous their case. It's tiresome to continue banging your head against a brick wall.

[maquisard]

With Horner, there's a huge amount of questions and no answers. When asked pointedly on British TV yesterday about doping he completely dodged the issue like a top politician. Contrast that with Nibali and Team Sky.

- But certain teams have suffered a change in tact, Wiggins used to be very anti doping in his earlier days, coming out with things like

"‘I think they have to take a strong look at who they invite to the race in the next few years; if there is one per cent suspicion or doubt that a team is involved in doping, or (are) working with certain doctors who are under suspicion of doping, then they shouldn’t be invited to the Tour de France, it’s as simple as that. They shouldn’t even be given a racing licence until they can prove that they are not involved in wrongdoing."

So by that token Wiggins doesn't think Sky should have been at the Tour de France in 2011 or 2012 when Leinders, a doctor as maligned as Ferrari, was working with the team.

An example being Tom Simpson. The poster must realise alcohol and billy was NOT cheating nor was it banned.

- Yes it was, national anti-doping law entered French legislation in June 1965. Performance-enhancing drugs, including amphetamines, were illegal in France after that point, and the first anti-doping testing began at the 1966 Tour. Simpson died in 1967 from an exhaustion of which performance enhancing drugs were a contributory factor.

Agree that Horner deserves suspicion but his rise to the top has been through a series of consistent improving performances. Not the spectacular and improbable rise to fame like Froome.

[ghisallo2003]

Pren, Airwise. Cant we just all be friends and agree it likely, given the statistical history of grand tour winners, along with consideration of age, that regardless of nationality, they are probably both at it.

Cynicism, suspicion and mistrust should unite us.

[mdeth1313]

Here we go:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report- ... oping-test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Report: Horner misses post-Vuelta anti-doping test
RadioShack claims testers went to the wrong hotel

Even if the "wrong Hotel" thing is legit, it doesn't matter anymore, it's never going to be believed.

[xnavalav8r]

Let the Inquisition begin anew!

However, I think it is prudent and important to know the facts before jumping to conclusions. If it is true that Horner followed procedure and supplied all the necessary whereabouts reports, then this falls firmly on the heads of the incompetents who can't seem to follow their own testing procedures. If the facts reveal otherwise, then there is cause for serious doubt on the part of Horner.

But, considering what I know of the various testing agencies, I'm inclined to believe that these chuckleheads don't bother to actually review their own paperwork and, rather than admit a mistake, will go to great lengths dramatacizing a non-issue rather than look like the buffoons they tend to be.

[ultyguy]

Ah, he would've been tested right after the Angrilu anyways. As if he would've doped for the last stage.

edit- and if you think the Spanish ADA wouldn't share with USADA, you're wrong.

[JamieL]

http://www.radioshackleopardtrek.com/news/anti-doping-testers-wrong

I'm inclined to believe them over this. It's not going to change my opinion of whether he was doped or not.